Modern Catholics Discuss Liturgical Abuses in New Mass – You Just Couldn’t Make This Stuff Up…Honest!

Comment: 

This group takes too long to get into the discussion (at least five minutes) but once they get going, it’s very interesting indeed to hear them objecting to some of the very things which were defended and promoted by fellow-parishioners when some of us were doing the complaining.  It’s also interesting to see how the standards have shifted (mostly in a downward direction).  In the end, it dawns on Catholics who are truly thinking it all through, that there is no option but to move on to the traditional Mass – back to the future…  It seems clear that the growth is to be found where the traditional Latin Mass is being offered, so pray for the trio in the video. They obviously mean well.  I liked them as people – so much so that, but for the geography, I’d invite them out for Haggis and Neeps 😀

Anyway, in summary, below are the 15 things which the group in the video argue need to stop happening… or not;  there is some disagreement within the group which offers food for thought, not least because, notably, it is the priest [“Richard” or “Rich” as he seems to introduce himself] who does the disagreeing.  

Clapping (applause)

2 Too many Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion

3 Receiving from the Chalice (“cup”) when sick

4 Leaving seats at sign of peace to “share the peace” with people across the church

5 Socialising before (and after) Mass

6 Phone ringing 

7 Not donating

8 Leaving Mass early

9 Bad preaching (lack of “fire”, not inspiring or nourishing)  [worryingly, the priest in the video is open to laity, including women, preaching.)

10 Receiving Holy Communion in mortal sin

11 Dressing inappropriately – not dressing up for Mass

12 No sanctus bells 

13 Genuflecting to the altar when the Tabernacle is somewhere else

14 I couldn’t hear anything specific, but the conversation went on to discuss baptism/use of “lemonade” type jug  (If I’ve missed something, tell me in the comments…) 

15. Holding hands during Our Father

My own predominant  thought listening to the conversation was that any hope for the future in that diocese lies with the laity, as represented by the two lads on the video not the clergy, as represented by the [very nice and doubtless well-meaning]  priest in the video –  a manifestly modernist priest but one who likes Cardinal Ratzinger!  How much more confusing can this mess get! 

Share your thoughts – politely!  I’ll be posting the link to this thread on their YouTube channel, below the above video, to be precise., so don’t be too hard on these good souls, who are all far too young to have been taught the Faith properly.  They are typical New Catholics tailor made for the New Mass, the New Liturgy, the New Sacraments, the New Catechism, the New Rosary, the New Evangelisation, the New Morality, the New Politically Correct  Pontiff, the New Canonisations, the New Commandments (minus idolatry and adultery) … and the New – you name it.    

Pope Benedict: NO! To Married Priests – Shock Horror from “Vatican Experts”…

From the BBC website (emphasis added)…

Retired Pope Benedict XVI has issued a defence of priestly celibacy in the Catholic Church as his successor considers easing a ban on married men serving as priests.

Pope Benedict made the appeal in a book co-authored with Cardinal Robert Sarah.

It comes in response to a proposal to allow married men to be ordained as priests in the Amazon region.

Pope Benedict, who retired in 2013, said he could not remain silent on the issue.

In the book, Pope Benedict says celibacy, a centuries-old tradition within the Church, has “great significance” because it allows priests to focus on their duties.

The 92-year-old says “it doesn’t seem possible to realise both vocations [priesthood and marriage] simultaneously”.

It is rare for Pope Benedict, who was the first pontiff to resign in almost 600 years, to intervene in clerical matters.

The Vatican is yet to comment on the book, which was previewed in part by French newspaper Le Figaro before its full publication on Monday.

Vatican commentators have reacted with surprise to Benedict’s intervention, suggesting it breaks with convention.

“Benedict XVI is really not breaking his silence because he (and his entourage) never felt bound to that promise. But this is a serious breach,” Massimo Faggioli, a historian and theologian at Villanova University, tweeted.

The comments by Pope Benedict were described as “incredible” by Joshua McElwee, a journalist for the National Catholic Reporter… Twitter post by @joshjmac…

As I digest this, I’m realizing how incredible it is. A former pope speaking in public about something his successor is currently in the process of considering.  (118 7:17 PM – Jan 12, 2020) …

For many, celibacy is a key part of being a Catholic priest. A priest is supposed to be married to God and not be distracted by what some consider to be worldly concerns like a wife or a family.

For traditionalists, this is about the direction in which Pope Francis is taking the Church.

Some critics regard the idea of allowing married priests in the Amazon as a pretext to abolishing celibacy as a requirement altogether….
Click here to read entire BBC Report 

Comment: 

It’s downright hilarious to read the shocked comments of the alleged “Vatican experts/commentators” who speak of a “serious breach” and describe as “incredible” the fact that the previous Pope, Benedict XVI, should actually speak out to defend Catholic Tradition, in this case, the traditional teaching on celibacy.  Talk about “diabolical disorientation” – writ large!  Our Lady of Fatima, pray for us! 

Far from keeping silence and “obeying” this horrendous pope, Benedict should have spoken out a long time ago.  In fact, of course, he should not have resigned/abdicated in the first place.  He, as much as Pope Francis, will be called to account for the scandals, indeed the near destruction of the Church in human terms, in these times.  Both before and AFTER his resignation/abdication.  Better late than never, however, he is to be congratulated on this occasion.  Agreed? 

Ireland: Papolatrist Priest Under Fire For “Attacking” Pope Francis – At Last!

Below, extracts from Fr Thaddeus Doyle’s January editorial, in The Curate’s Diary

Some years ago, this priest launched a series of articles attacking Fatima priest, Father Nicholas Gruner, RIP,  to which Catholic Truth (and the Fatima Center) responded vigorously. Click here to read an Open Letter to Fr Thaddeus Doyle from Christopher Ferrara, correcting his false statements about Fr Gruner and the  Consecration of Russia, and highlighting his adherence to the Medjugorje hoax.

As you will see below, Fr Doyle has now come to the point of feeling the need to criticise Pope Francis.  Yet here he attacks Archbishop Vigano for doing precisely the same thing…   He is one very mixed-up clergyman. Pray for him.

From Fr Doyle’s current, January, editorial…

Faithful Friend,

Thank you from the depths of my heart for your continued loyalty to the Curate’s Diary in these difficult times.

I especially thank those who have continued to promote the Curate’s Diary despite many people objecting to its contents, and sometimes despite being insulted for promoting it.

Our circulation has indeed suffered greatly as a result of my coverage of recent events in the Church. Indeed since I began the series on Pope Francis and the problems in the heart of our Church, our circulation has dropped by 850 and is still dropping. About half of that is as a result of these articles. There has also been a knock-on effect on other aspects of my ministry also, including the loss of speaking engagements.

Why then do I not turn a blind eye to what I perceive as problems in the Church?

…Indeed when problems first began to arise in relation to Pope Francis, I too didn’t want to know. I even tried to block some things out of my consciousness. One such incidence happened while Cardinal Muller was still head of the Congregation for the Doctrine and Faith.

One morning when Cardinal Muller was celebrating Mass, his secretary got a phone call from Pope Francis who insisted on speaking to Cardinal Muller immediately. His secretary explained that Cardinal Muller was celebrating Mass. Pope Francis still insisted that he wanted to speak to him. Immediately! To interrupt the Mass!

Naturally Cardinal Muller wasn’t happy, but his secretary explained that he had already told Pope Francis that he was celebrating Mass, but yet Pope Francis wanted to speak to him. Now!

Had it been me, I would not have left the altar regardless of who was on the phone.

Every morning, if it is possible, I spend 30 minutes before Mass seeking to prepare my mind and heart for the celebration of Mass.

I cannot comprehend any cleric or indeed any person interrupting Mass or any ceremony for a phone-call.

How can one possibly put one’s mind and heart into celebrating the Mass if one is interrupted in the middle of it to answer the phone?

To me to interrupt Mass in this way is grave matter:- grave matter in lack of reverence and respect for the Mass, and also grave matter in this case because it involved the abuse of power.

When I heard what had happened, I was shocked, but I pushed this incident and other troubling incidents out of my mind, and got on with life, supporting Pope Francis and challenging his critics. However eventually things happened which I could not push out of my mind any longer.

I am a firm believer in the teaching of Jesus as we find it in the New Testament.

As years have gone by, my eyes have been opened more and more to the wisdom, truth and beauty of every word that the New Testament records Jesus as having said.

It is for me a real proof that Jesus was truly God. How otherwise could he have come up with such amazing and revolutionary teaching? 

Jesus is, as He said, the Way, the Truth and the Life. And as He also said, ³Everyone who belongs to the truth listens to My voice.² There is a sense in which a person hasn’t totally met Jesus if he or she isn’t guided by His teaching.

Regardless of the cost, I will stand for the teaching of Jesus. Publicly! Given my own love for Jesus, given my belief that his teaching is the true word of God, staying silent when a leading Church figure speaks or acts in a way that is contrary to the teaching of Jesus, is not an option. [Editor:  yet, when the “Lady” of Medjugorje does just that, he has no problem with it.]

Naturally it saddens me when we lose readers. But I am only losing readers – not my life.

Spiritually it is not a bad thing to suffer some small loss for the sake [of] Jesus. It means that one is putting Jesus before self.

There is, however, a sad side to it as well. My life is totally dedicated to leading people to a living relationship with Jesus, and the fewer readers we have, the fewer people I can help in their spiritual journey. I can only trust that one day, Jesus will in some way use my witness for the good His kingdom.

Ironically, but thankfully, one reason so many people have a difficulty with the Pope being criticised is that we have had outstanding popes for so long. [Editor: emphasis added, as I try to keep a straight face].

If people had a better knowledge of Church history, they would not have near as many scruples about a Pope being challenged

Yours, in Christ, Thaddeus Doyle (Rev)

To read the entire editorial, visit  Source – Jesus Power Ministries

Comment…

The very title of this priest’s site gives a flavour of his “ministry” –  which is that of any Protestant preacher. Appeals to “the Spirit”,  to building “a relationship with  Jesus” along with references to the “Gospel” as distinct from the Church, feature in his writings, which, arguably, lack the Catholic ethos.  That aside, however, what are your thoughts about Fr Thaddeus Doyle’s conversion to criticising Pope Francis? Might it lead to greater things?   If you have any stories of similar “conversions”,  of priests shedding their papolatry to condemn the scandals caused by Pope Francis, let us know. 

Importantly, too, consider what moves a priest like Fr Doyle to speak out, albeit better late than never, in the matter of the scandalous words and behaviour of Pope Francis?  Is it, thinkest thou, the above sentiment from Our Lady – is it because they come to a realisation that they must put God and His Truth above loyalty to any individual pontiff?  If not… what then?  

With Apostasy Full-Blown Worldwide, Pope Warns of “Christian Decline”…

Pope Francis has [said that] “rigidity” in living out the Christian faith is creating a “minefield” of hatred and misunderstanding in a world where Christianity is increasingly irrelevant. Francis called for Vatican bureaucrats to instead embrace change during his annual Christmas greetings to the cardinals, bishops and priests who work in the Holy See, on Saturday (local time). Francis’ message appeared aimed at conservative and traditionalist Catholics, including within the Vatican Curia, who have voiced increasing opposition to his progressive-minded papacy. Their criticisms have accelerated over the past year, amid Vatican financial and sex abuse scandals that may have predated Francis’ papacy but are nevertheless coming to light now.

Francis issued a stark reality check to the men in the Sala Clementina of the Apostolic Palace, acknowledging that Christianity no longer holds the commanding presence and influence in society that it once did. He cited the late Cardinal Carlo Maria Martini, a leader of the progressive wing of the Catholic Church, who in his final interview before dying in 2012 lamented that the church found itself “200 years behind” because of its inbred fear of change. “Today we are no longer the only ones that produce culture, no longer the first nor the most listened to,” Francis told the prelates.
“The faith in Europe and in much of the West is no longer an obvious presumption but is often denied, derided, marginalised and ridiculed.”

As a result, he urged the Catholic hierarchy to embrace the necessary pastoral reforms and outlook that will make the church attractive so that it can fulfil its mission to spread the faith.

“Here we have to beware of the temptation of assuming a rigid outlook,” Francis said. “Rigidity that is born from fear of change and ends up disseminating stakes and obstacles in the ground of the common good, turning it into a minefield of misunderstanding and hatred.”

He recalled, as he has in the past, that people who take rigid positions are usually using them to mask their own problems, scandals or “imbalances”.
“Rigidity and imbalance fuel one another in a vicious circle,” he said. “And these days, the temptation to rigidity has become so apparent.”

Traditionalist Catholics have denounced Francis’ emphasis on mercy and openness to doctrinal wiggle room on issues such as sacraments for divorced and civilly remarried Catholics.  They also sharply criticised his recent synod on the Amazon, which called for the ordination of married men as priests, and what they considered pagan worship of an Amazonian statue of a pregnant woman that was featured during the meeting.

Francis has defended his outlook and priorities as a reflection of the Gospel, and the axiom that the true tradition of the church is one of a continuous, discerned path of change.  “Tradition is not static, it’s dynamic,” he said Saturday.

In a tangible sign of change, Francis issued a new decree Saturday limiting the term of the dean of the College of Cardinals, an influential job that had previously been held for life. Francis accepted the resignation of the current dean, Cardinal Angelo Sodano, and decreed that going forward, the future top cardinal would only have a five-year renewable term. Sodano had been the powerful secretary of state under St John Paul II, and was blamed in part for the Vatican’s refusal to crack down on paedophile priests, including the notorious Rev Marcial Maciel.

Sodano, 92, continued to wield behind-the-scenes influence in the two papacies that followed, acting most recently as something of a beacon for conservative opposition to Francis. As dean, he delivered his final Christmas greeting to Francis on Saturday.  Source – 9News

Comment:  From the writings of Pope Saint Pius X…

“It is an error to believe that Christ did not teach a determined body of doctrine applicable to all times and to all men.” (Pope Saint Pius X)

Clearly, Pope Francis doesn’t agree; he would class Pope Saint Pius X as “rigid”.   So the dilemma for any Catholic is to decide which Pope is right? 

1st Sunday in Advent, 2019: 50th Anniversary of the Imposition of the New Mass… Is Anybody Celebrating?

From Rorate Caeli

Fifty years ago this weekend, the Catholic Church debuted a new version of Mass following reforms made by the 1960s’ Second Vatican Council. From the use of vernacular language instead of Latin, to the priest facing the people instead of the tabernacle, the changes became mandatory at all parishes on the First Sunday of Advent 1969.

There was high-level resistance to replacing the traditional Latin Mass with a new version. Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani, who headed and served for 32 years in the highest doctrinal office at the Vatican (later succeeded by Joseph Ratzinger, who would become Pope Benedict XVI), wrote an intervention in 1969 entitled “Short Critical Study on the New Order of Mass.” In it, he, joined by another cardinal and several liturgical experts, warned “fresh changes in the liturgy could lead to nothing but complete bewilderment on the part of the faithful.” [link to Ottaviani Intervention added – Editor CT]

The Pope at the time was convinced radical liturgical innovation was needed. Addressing his Mass alterations in November 1969, Pope Paul VI stated: “The results expected, or rather desired, are that the faithful will participate in the liturgical mystery with more understanding, in a more practical, a more enjoyable and a more sanctifying way.”

Pope Paul VI with the six Protestant Ministers who actively contributed to the creation of the new Mass…


The results were the opposite. Since the 1960s, Mass attendance has plummeted, from around 70% of U.S. Catholics every Sunday and Holy Day

before the liturgical changes, to 21% of U.S. Catholics currently attending weekly Mass. In other countries, including much of Western Europe, the number can be in the single digits.

But after five decades of experiments and decline, there is some growth to be observed within the Catholic Church. Ironically, it is with traditionalists joining the priesthood, entering convents and attending parishes that offer the very Latin Mass that was replaced 50 years ago.  

One such society of clergy, the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter, has seen growth even in the otherwise turbulent past year, including a doubling of

attendance at its Los Angeles parish, with new churches being established each year that quickly fill up with hundreds of families attending the old Mass. Its seminaries, completely full, often turn away applicants — a challenge shared by almost no diocese or religious order in 2019.

Interestingly, this growth in tradition — particularly among young Catholics — has occurred while Pope Francis has moved in the completely opposite direction during his nearly seven years in Rome. The Jesuit pope has chastised traditionally minded Catholics numerous times, including saying: “I always try to understand what is behind those individuals who are too young to have lived the pre-Conciliar liturgy, and who want it nonetheless.

“I have at times found myself in front of people who are too rigid, an attitude of rigidity. And I ask myself: how come so much rigidity? You dig, you dig, this rigidity always hides something: insecurity, at times perhaps something else.” This was said by the same Francis who, when asked about homosexual priests, replied “Who am I to judge?”

The resurgence of the traditional Latin Mass started before Francis, but has seen unprecedented growth during his papacy, a counterrevolution of sorts that some (both admirably and critically) call an alternative Francis effect. Even bishops and priests who were not ordinarily interested in the traditional Latin Mass have been much more generous and vocal in offering additional such liturgies. Two distinct wings of the Catholic Church have emerged. Often, the new versus the old Mass is a defining characteristic of the opposing coalitions.

The past 50 years have not been good ones for the Catholic Church. Pope Benedict saw this when he wrote, of the new form of Mass, “we abandoned the organic, living process of growth and development over centuries, and replaced it — as in a manufacturing process — with a fabrication, a banal on-the-spot product.”

How the hierarchy of the Church deals with “those individuals who are too young to have lived the pre-Conciliar liturgy, and who want it nonetheless” is a question they have not yet begun to answer.  Source – Rorate Caeli

Comment: 

We’d dearly love to hear from those of you who are still attending the new Mass, despite the manifest evidence that it cannot possibly be pleasing to God.  Those involved in creating this new Mass made clear that their aim was to remove everything that would be an obstacle to Protestants (like, for example, the very idea that the Mass is a re-presentation of the Sacrifice of Calvary). Having made the Mass palatable to Protestants, then, nobody should be surprised at the prospect of making  it pleasing to pagans as well, by including the pagan rituals dear to the indigenous population in the Amazon region. What’s the bet that you will see the fruits of this latest blasphemy in a parish near you, Scotland, England, Wales, Ireland, USA – you name it – before you’ve had time to Google “Amazon Synod”… 

On this terrible anniversary, the book Open Letter to Confused Catholics, written by Archbishop Lefebvre, one of the few prelates at the Second Vatican  Council who acted to protect the traditional Mass, is well worth reading. Events have shown his analysis to be truly prophetic and it is to this Archbishop that we owe the growth of the movement to restore the ancient Mass and Faith.  Click on the image to reach an online copy which you really ought to add to your “must-read” list immediately, if not sooner 😀 

Finally… well… is anybody celebrating the anniversary of the imposition of the new Mass?  If so, we’re jes dyin’ to hear from you…  

27th October – Feast of Christ the King!

Comment:

We are reflecting upon, and discussing, the shocking state of the Church on various threads; We have noted that Our Lord, Christ the King, is being abused and insulted at the highest levels in His Church today.  The human element in the Church is all but obscuring the divine.  Let us, therefore, use this Feast Day thread as a small means of reparation, as well as celebration. Take a few minutes to share your favourite hymns and prayers, devotions, novenas, pilgrimages etc. as a means of reminding ourselves that, despite the scandalous outward appearances, Christ is  remaining true to His promise to be with His Church right to the end:  “…And behold, I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.” (Matt 28:20)  

Real faith is required of us today – we cannot merely, as some put it, “cling to a tribal identity”.  Perhaps a short extract from the life of St Thérèse of Lisieux, the Little Flower, will point us towards the attitude of soul which we might most profitably embrace at this time – the saint is writing (to her Superior) about the affliction of her “dark night of the soul”: 

From the time of my childhood I felt that one day I should be set free from this land of darkness. I believed it, not only because I had been told so by others, but my heart’s most secret and deepest longings assured me that there was in store for me another and more beautiful country—an abiding dwelling-place. I was like Christopher Columbus, whose genius anticipated the discovery of the New World. And suddenly the mists about me have penetrated my very soul and have enveloped me so completely that I cannot even picture to myself this promised country . . . all has faded away. When my heart, weary of the surrounding darkness, tries to find some rest in the thought of a life to come, my anguish increases. It seems to me that out of the darkness I hear the mocking voice of the unbeliever: “You dream of a land of light and fragrance, you dream that the Creator of these wonders will be yours for ever, you think one day to escape from these mists where you now languish. Nay, rejoice in death, which will give you, not what you hope for, but a night darker still, the night of utter nothingness!”

Dear Mother, this description of what I suffer is as far removed from reality as the first rough outline is from the model, but I fear that to write more were to blaspheme . . . even now I may have said too much. May God forgive me! He knows that I try to live by Faith, though it does not afford me the least consolation. I have made more acts of Faith in this last year than during all the rest of my life.  (Chapter IX, The Story of a Soul).

Maybe we should compete with this great saint and Doctor of the Church, in making many acts of Faith, not just on this beautiful Feast, but every day throughout the worsening crisis in the Church.  Here’s one – if you have a favourite, please share:

An Act of Faith…

O MY GOD, I firmly believe that Thou art one God in Three Divine Persons, Father, Son and Holy Ghost. I believe that Thy Divine Son became Man, and died for our sins, and that He will come to judge the living and the dead. I believe these and all the truths which the Holy Catholic Church teaches, because Thou hast revealed them, Who canst neither deceive nor be deceived.   Amen.

Hail, Christ the King! 

If Pope Francis Doubts Divinity of Christ, Can We Trust The Church? 

Comment:

The priest’s sermon in the above video is a much needed reminder of the basics of the Faith; the 20 minutes required to hear the sermon/watch the video is well worth spending to remind ourselves that – notwithstanding the scandals we are witnessing, not least through the words and actions of this shocking pontiff – God is with His Church, and it is the ONLY Church which has been given to us for our salvation.  It is worth reminding ourselves of just who and what is infallible, and when; and to check out the teaching of the Church that Scripture is true, entire and whole: there is no error in Scripture, as the Church herself is indefectable –  in relation to which, you may wish to comment on the police raid on the Vatican, to which Father refers. Oh,  and you may want to let us know what you think about the Amazon Synod recommendation that we begin now to confess our “sins against ecology”…  Laugh? I thought I’d never start…