Second Referendum On Scottish Independence On The Way – Help! 

Nicola Sturgeon [left] has announced a draft bill will be drawn up setting out the timing, terms and question for a new Scottish independence referendum.

The first minister said that Brexit strengthened the case for Scotland to become an independent country.

Unveiling the Programme for government, Sturgeon said that a similar announcement in an independent Scotland would outline plans for an extension to the furlough scheme, more money in borrowing, a more progressive immigration system and a universal basic income.

She told MSPs that a new draft Bill will be drawn up setting out the timing and terms for a new independence referendum, as well as the question to be asked to voters if it is given the green light by Westminster.

The first minister added: “Then, at next year’s election, we will make the case for Scotland to become an independent country and seek a clear endorsement of Scotland’s right to choose our own future.”

Scottish Conservative leader Douglas Ross tweeted: “The first minister just doesn’t get it. We need to take Scotland forward and recover from this crisis together, not go back to the divisions of the past.”

Earlier this month a poll suggested support for Scottish independence has reached a record high of 55%.

The research by Panelbase found the results of the 2014 independence referendum – when 55% of Scots voted to stay in the United Kingdom – were reversed.

Pro-independence organisation Business for Scotland commissioned the poll, with chief executive Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp hailing the results as a “huge landmark” showing the “writing is very definitely on the wall for the union”.

Panelbase questioned a total of 1,011 people across Scotland between August 12 and 18 for the research.

Overall, 51% of those questioned said they support independence, 42% said they would vote to stay in the UK and 7% of voters were undecided.

When undecided voters were excluded, 55% favoured Scotland leaving the UK, with 45% preferring to stay in the union.  Source

Comment: 

Given the flat outright immoral legislation introduced by the SNP-led Scottish Government over the years since the Parliament became a devolved administration, could any Catholic – or anyone remotely considering themselves to be Christian – possibly consider voting for independence at this time?  I can’t see it – can you?

22 responses

  1. I think I’m missing something, so here’s a question or two: would the far-left agenda of the SNP be empowered by Scottish independence? Is there some sort of restraint of this evil coming from Westminster (I can’t imagine evil restraining evil, but…) under the present political structure, that would disappear should Scotland become independent?

    • RCA Victor,

      I can’t see what on earth the First Minister is thinking of, suggesting this at a time of horrendous suffering for people. Who cares about independence, and anyway, if it’s the same as the last time, we’ll be keeping the currency, keeping the Queen, keeping an open border with England/Wales which will make it impossible to re-join the EU which is what she says she wants to do. The whole thing is a scam. One scam after another, we’re going through.

      I’m sorry to sound uncharitable but Nicola Sturgeon just loves the limelight and this is what she’ll be getting plenty of now. “Indyref2” they call it, and if it doesn’t happen this time (which I don’t think it will), we’ll keep getting “indyref” 3, 4, 5 etc.

      It’s a joke.

      • I’ve just found out that Sturgeon is re-introducing restrictions to the Glasgow area
        https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newslondon/nicola-sturgeon-imposes-stricter-lockdown-restrictions-in-glasgow/vi-BB18BvcU?ocid=msedgntp

        This is going to go on and on and on. We’re not getting out of this, but then we know this straight from the World Health Organisation, thanks to Tucker Carlson on another thread. I’ve quoted those words loads of times to people, “We cannot and will not return to live as before” – but nobody seems to care. I’m flabbergasted. So those of us who live in the central belt of Scotland can look forward to more stay-at-home orders for the foreseeable future.

        I definitely won’t be voting for independence. If I’d had any second thoughts about it, they’re gone now.

      • Laura,

        You are spot on about this alleged independence. We’ll be keeping the Queen (of another – foreign – country!), we’ll be keeping the pound sterling, (i.e. the currency of another – foreign – country!) and the whole border issue will be like a rerun of the Irish border dilemma during the Brexit campaign.

        Make it up, you just could not.

    • RCA Victor,

      There’s no reason. The excuse is Brexit. “Only” a million+ of us voted to leave the EU, the rest voted to stay and hand over our fishing waters to foreign fishermen. The Great Pretence of the EU as being a wonderful club which we really need to re-join, is the rationale behind this second attempt at getting us to vote for a break from England. O and the really brain-dead compare how wonderfully they think Nicola is dealing with “the virus” to the less wonderful way (they think) Boris is dealing with it.

      Gimme strength.

      • Editor,

        So, indirectly, or as a delayed reaction, the far-left agenda of the SNP would indeed be served by Scottish independence, if the ultimate goal is to re-join the EU, which is far-leftism/Communism disguised as benevolent bureaucracy.

        Aren’t people tired of being lied to yet? Or is it that they don’t know they’re being lied to?

        • RCA Victor,

          They don’t know they’re being lied to – they are being led by their emotions.

          Here is a BBC report from July this year, linking the Coronavirus pandemic with the call for another referendum. It’s so unthinking – even if it was true that Nicola Sturgeon dealt with the pandemic better than Boris, that doesn’t mean we should break from the UK. That’s a non-sequitur but people act on their emotions, these days, and leave reason and common sense out of their thinking.

  2. I’m dismayed at the news of further restrictions in Glasgow – incredible. The numbers dying from this virus – and only this virus, not other condition(s) – are so low, it’s very obvious that this is a political virus.

    Of course, Nicola Sturgeon has been showcasing herself as a “cautious but strong leader” – and those who’ve not yet had a brain scan (to check if there’s a brain present) have fallen for the show aka propaganda.

    That’s what’s behind this latest pitch for “independence” (as Laura indicates, independence of a sort – about as independent as we are right now… same currency etc.)

    Of course, we’d have our own flag, the saltire would fly supreme. Well, better than nothing I suppose..

    Me? I can’t imagine any argument in favour of independence that would win my vote until, at least, indyref3,000.

    • We’ve only been permitted to attend public Masses for a few weeks! Well that didn’t last long, did it? I thought they would give us until at least October for a second lockdown. Looks like this is the new normal … near permanent lockdown.

      • Miles Immaculatae,

        The new normal is underway in that we are now to be kept in a constant state of flux and fear. We never know the minute we’ll be returned to house arrest. That IS the “new normal” – tyrannical government. We’re getting used to it…

  3. She thinks she’s the female version of Julius Caesar “Dictator Perpetua”. Look what happened to him, though, and Alex Salmond is just waiting in the wings, her Brutus, to administer the fatal career blow with his book. She’s like all Socialists, she wants to dominate society by subjugating its people under totalitarian rule, bankrupting the country both financially and morally along the way. We saw the egomania in her when she declared that she had “ordered” the shutdown of Aberdeen and again today when she ordered new restrictions in Glasgow. To all intents and purposes Socialists are insane people, no grace of God about them. Her reign will come to the usual ignominious end, as it does for all godless dictators, and she’ll be quickly forgotten.

    In the meantime, I’m perfectly happy now to sit back and watch all the mask-wearing, social-distancing sheep get what they deserve, a collapsed economy in a Marxist country run by a debauched government.

  4. I think it’s important to draw a distinction between the independence movement as a whole and the SNP. It’s worth pointing out that for as long as I have been studying the polls (at least for the last 30 years) support for independence consistently outperforms support for the SNP. For example Lord Ashcroft’s independence referendum exit poll showed 31% of Labour voters and 23% of LibDem voters voted “Yes” to independence. (See here: https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2014/09/scotland-voted/).The electoral success of the SNP in recent years is in large part due to the fact that they have persuaded more and more of these pro-independence electors to vote SNP rather than for a Unionist party.

    The SNP has always been a very broad church because it has had to be able to include within it everyone who is pro-independence. Today it has prominent members all the way from the libertarian right to the Bolshevik left, and on social questions it is similar. Although the majority of SNP members and representatives are pro same sex marriage and pro abortion, the SNP also has within it’s ranks the three most forthright pro life voices in Scottish politics in John Mason, Kate Forbes, and Lisa Cameron. Of the 18 MSPs who bravely voted against same sex marriage almost half (7) were SNP members, representing more than 10% of the parliamentary group, the highest percentage of any party in the parliament except for the Conservatives. (See here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26041921)

    The SNP is a political coalition which exists solely for the purpose of achieving independence, once that goal is achieved there will be no purpose for it to serve, and Scottish politics will realign along the same left-right axis as most other countries in Europe, and the SNP will be no more. The only thing which keeps the SNP in existence at all is the continuing presence of the British state. There are any number of reasons to vote for or against Scottish independence, but being pro-Union because you dislike the SNP is as illogical as being pro-crime because you dislike the police. It fails to understand that the latter only remains justified due to the existence of the former. If you don’t like the SNP you should vote for independence next time, as that will sound the SNP’s deathknell

    Also, don’t imagine for a second that preserving the British union will keep Scotland more socially conservative. All the polling data suggests that English voters are far less socially conservative than Scottish ones, and remember that abortion legislation was passed in Westminster under a Labour government and same sex marriage under a Conservative one.

    • Chris,

      You make some excellent points and I take them under advisement… 😀

      What you don’t mention, is the question of the nature of “independence” given that the SNP promise that we will be recognising the Queen of what will then be a foreign state, same currency etc. How on earth can that be described as “independence”?

      In any event, my key dilemma as a voter will not disappear with a declaration of independence – I’ll have the same problem of being unable to cast my vote for a pro-life party (individual politicians make no difference – the policy needs to change) .

      And that raises this question: what will happen to all the SNP MPs in Westminster? I can’t see them handing back their salary and settling down to life in a 9-5pm job, can you?

      My guess is that there will be some mechanism invented to allow them to transfer to the Holyrood Parliament, at which point we will effectively be a one-party state. This is off the top of my head, I don’t know the figures, just that we have a lot of SNP MPs in Westminster (approx 50, if my memory is, for once, correct).

      You are right, of course, about the entire British establishment being anything but socially conservative – with regard to the introduction and enforcement of immoral legislation, they’re definitely all in it together.

      However, watching Nicola Sturgeon acting like a tinpot dictator from the outset of this pandemic, I feel a shiver of genuine horror at the thought of being left at the mercy of her whims and fancies.

      • I’ll try to answer your points in turn:

        1. The Queen would not be the head of state of a foreign state. The present royal dynasty dates to William of Orange and Mary II’s acceptance of the Scottish throne on 11 May 1689. This took place 28 years prior to the Act of Union. The present Queen is Queen of Scotland, as well as England, although it perhaps says something that so few people think of the monarchy that way. In any event she also Queen of Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and most other Commonwealth nations so such a constitutional situation is not at all unusual. I suspect that an independent Scotland would vote to become a republic before not too long in any case.

        2. Current SNP policy is for an independent Scotland to move towards a new Scottish currency as soon as practicable. (See here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48069470)

        3. I should think the SNP MPs in Westminster would be delighted to be made redundant, it’s what they’ve been working for their entire political careers.

        4. Holyrood would be far less of a one-party state than it is at present because the SNP would soon be obsolete once independence is achieved, as I explained above. Scottish politics would no longer have the cross party fissure created by the independence question.

        Editor: Chris, there were several copies of this in one of the admin files. As I’m sure you’ve noticed in the past, I’ve apologised profusely because too many posts from various bloggers are disappearing into thin air, and into one of my admin files. It’s one of the Wonders of WordPress. I keep checking when I’m in and around my computer, but it sometimes takes a while for me to get there, if I’m not in and around my computer. I always release posts as soon as I see them, though, so no need to submit more than once. If it disappears, it means it’s lurking in admin. Apologies. I know it’s irritating – believe it or not, it HAS happened even to me and moi; and it annoys us both! 😀

        • Chris,

          It’s true that there is a lineage which gives the Queen a claim to Scotland – I’ve been revising my school history which didn’t go much beyond what we saw in Braveheart 😀
          https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/research/learning/features/queen-elizabeth-ii-and-scotland

          However, if Scotland separated from England it would be a very awkward relationship.

          I’m more interested, really, though, in how the border would be managed. We’re assured by Nicola that there would be no hard border. How do you think that would work then, if we re-join the EU and have to deal with goods coming and going between Scotland and the countries of the EU? Sounds like potential chaos to me. And that’s without considering the nonsense of breaking from England only to once again take rules from Brussels. As I say, a very strange kind of independence. Please don’t say that France, Spain etc don’t think they lack independence – the fact is, they do. Brussels is boss for the countries of the EU.

    • Chris

      I agree with what you say about Independence being a long time popular subject in Scotland.

      Sadly, this phenomenon arises from Scotland’s devotion to godless Socialism; first by its love affair with the Labour Party and now with the far more radically Maxist SNP.

      It is to the great disgrace of our nation that the Scottish rite of Freemasonry is the most frequently used rite in the world and that Communism found its way into the UK via Scotland, more precisely the “Red Clyde”. I can testify to this as one who had a distant relative, thankfully before I was born, who distributed Communist materials on the Red Clyde and was paid from Moscow via Prague. It is also to the great discredit of our country that so many Scots went to fight against the Catholic Franco. Traitors all!

      Hard to believe, given this evil recent history, that Scotland was once named by Pius IX as “the dearest daughter of the Church”, such was her Catholic Faith.

      Yes, Scotland has fallen into the deepest recesses of evil in politics over the past 100 years, Communist Russia being the first and only country to conquer us as a people. China acts today as Russia’s deputy supervisor over our affairs. The subjugation was achieved by stealth and the availability of so many “useful idiots” in a nation once proud of its canny nature and the astounding achievments of its inventors. So very tragic.

  5. Chris McLaughlin sort of anticipated an editing suggestion I was going to make about the poll question, namely:

    “May Catholics vote, in good conscience, for an independent Scotland which would fall under the rule of an anti-Catholic government?”

    This, in effect, detaches the question of Scottish independence from the question of the SNP and its fellow travelers.

    However, I think his idea that the SNP would cease to exist once deprived of its purpose is a tad naive. That would be akin to Sturgeon giving up her dictatorial COVID-19 whims once a vaccine appears on the scene. Whoever heard of a dictator voluntarily giving up power? That, as FOOF would say, would be about as rare as an ashtray on a motorbike…

    But perhaps he meant “cease to exist as a coalition,” rather than “cease to exist as a party”? Communists, after all, are very good at re-inventing themselves, in imitation of their master, Lucifer, who can re-invent himself as an angel of light, or a serpent.

    • RCAVictor

      Absolutely right! The entire Independence movement in Scotland, whether SNP or other, is a Communist movement that seeks to divide and conquer. There is no common sense reason for Scotland to break away from the UK, in fact it would be economic suicide, other than to ensure that the country be entirely subjugated under Communist rule of one form or another. In this regard we have to question why Westminster ever allowed devolution and the formation of a Scottish parliament. This was a very dangerous concession to the Communist seperatist movement which has since build on that victory to demand full independence. Foolish leaders we have running countries today. Either that or they are evil conspirators who know exactly what their actions will lead to.

      • “The entire Independence movement in Scotland…is a Communist movement”

        In the nicest possible way Athanasius, if you really believe this, then you really know very little about the independence movement. I have been a member of the SNP all of my adult life, since my mid-teens, when the entire party activist base could fit in a small function room in a Perth hotel. And I’m old enough to remember that in those days we were derided as “Tartan Tories”. Or as a Protestant party. Or as an East coast party. Just now we’re the godless Communist party, despite having more practising Christians and genuine free marketeers in positions of authority than anyone else.

        It might interest you to know that the SNP’s origins are on the right of Scottish politics, when the National Party of Scotland merged with the Scottish Party,
        a breakaway group from the Cathcart Unionist (i.e. Conservative) Association. Before entering politics Alex Salmond was an oil economist, and the economic roots of the party are in businessmen in the oil, banking, and agricultural sectors – hardly industries renowned for their leftist tendencies.

        I’ll concede that the current SNP leadership has an authoritarian streak I really worry about. I think this can be traced back to the vicious and classist smoking ban of 2006. I remember only myself and a few other liberty loving souls opposing it, and being written off as eccentric and foolish contrarians by almost everyone else in society who cheered it on. (First they came for the smokers, and I did not protest.) However I think it is self-evidently obvious that government decisions are best made the closer the government is to the people. The idea that we should allow the citizens of a foreign country to direct the affairs of our society is literally irresponsible, and in my view a profoundly immoral dereliction of collective civic duty.

        If you want to do away with abortion and same sex marriage then what you have to win is the cultural war, not the political one. Politicians always follow the public on these matters, and the reason they are voted through in parliament is because most people in our society think that’s fine. You get moral politicians when you have a moral society, not the other way round.

        • Chris,

          Sorry, but the politicians in Scotland did NOT follow the people on the culture war over same-sex marriage. We were subjected to not one, but two consultations exercises, where they had us completing the most ridiculous forms – so convoluted that the churches were issuing guidance sheets, showing how to answer the crazy questions. Q3, if you wish to answer “NO” then you need to say XYZ… It really was a horror show.

          Nevertheless, the consultations were submitted (mine included) and the result was over 60% opposed to the introduction of same-sex marriage. Nicola’s response was “too bad, we’re introducing it anyway.”

          Follow the public, you say? That’ll be the day.

  6. We Sturgeon to me is Loving this limelight of the Chinese Corona Virus so as She can make Draconian Laws at will . The Wummin forby being a Marxist Disaster is a Megolmaniac she just loves the publicity. As for the SNP the only party with any morals that I see against them is Richard Lucas Family Party . I don’t know what the full cost of Her Favourite Phrase Indyref would be nor do I want to see what the last one cost . But obviously this Wummin is going to bang on and on about Independence until She gets a winning vote . I wonder if she throws any House Parties.

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