Scots Bishop Excommunicates Critics of Pope Francis – Is Catholic Truth Next?

Bishop Brian McGee, 54, of Argyll and The Isles, Scotland, excommunicated a group of hermits on Westray Island, reports Deacon Nick Donnelly on Twitter.

The excommunication was notified on Christmas Eve by mail.

The group consists of Father Stephen de Kerdrel, Sister Colette Roberts and Brother Damon Kelly who, in the past, was arrested ten times for criticising homosexuality and abortion.

The reason for the excommunication was a declaration published in summer on the hermits’ website calling Francis “a great heretic” and stating that “never in history has there been such a Pope, who by his actions, words, and teaching, has thrown the whole Church into confusion.”

The hermits declaration therefore withdraw “our obedience from Pope Francis and sever communion with the Holy See.”   © Nick Donnelly, #newsSxxgfrdnaj

Source – with full declaration included… 

Comment: 

Ignore the headline!  Catholic Truth is highly unlikely to be excommunicated because, unlike those hermits, we recognise that we do not possess the authority to pronounce on the Pope in this way;  we recognise, rather, that this pontificate is but the latest suffering for us, in this ever-worsening Church crisis.  Much patience, along with much penance and prayer is needed to see us through this crisis. Pray for the Pope, highlight and correct his shocking errors, and then wait for the judgment of the Church in due course.  Unless he publicly and massively repents, there’s no doubt that he will be anathematized by the Church authorities at some future date.  Just not now.  And just not by anyone who lacks the authority to formally denounce him.  It’s sad and disappointing that those hermits have now followed Luther to stand against Christ’s Church, and all because of a bad pope.  Very sad. Very disappointing.    One of the things which has led them into this error, as stated in their  Declaration, is the incomprehensible silence of the world’s bishops.  They are right about that – those bishops will share in whatever horrors await Pope Francis at his judgment for their complicity in his theological, spiritual, moral and ecclesiastical crimes. 

Nevertheless, I sincerely hope there’s nobody on this blog who thinks that the hermits did the right thing but if you ARE of that flawed mindset,  feel free to say so, just this once – we normally avoid this subject since it can lead people astray, but since this is happening here in our own neck of the woods in Scotland, well… there’s always an exception to the rule.  So, this is it; but, be clear, those hermits are 100% wrong to break from  Christ’s Church no matter how well intentioned, for we all know about that dreaded road which is paved with good intentions but which leads us, literally, to Hell.  Avoid! 

55 responses

  1. Such sad news. A lot of us can sympathize with the frustration felt by those hermits, but you are correct, they should not have separated themselves from Rome. We must endure this pontificate and use the pope’s every outlandish word and act as fuel to drive us into deeper personal piety for his sake and our own. The night that shrouds us is dark indeed, but the dawn must come. Our faith and our long history assure us of it.

    • Rome, vatican , Jesuits. And [Pope Francis] has separated themselves from Faithful . Actual [Catholic] devout church goers .. Which is why we stopped giving money to Peter Pence etc. Charities, Novis ordo bishops.- Annual appeals crs. And cchd etc..

      Ed: yes, the church authorities – over the past 50 years – have broken from Catholic Tradition. That is true. And we must denounce that and follow only that which they (including the Popes) pronounce which is in accordance with Tradition. That’s quite different from denying that the Pope is the Pope. If history judges him to have NOT been so, it will be because the legitimate authorities have said so. Not you, not me, not any other person on earth. That was Archbishop Lefebvre’s position – that we resist all the errors that have come from modernist churchmen, including popes, since Vatican II, while doing what we can to rectify the situation (which is why he said “when Rome calls, we go…” ) He was anxious to do what he could / his Society could, to end the irregular situation. At no time did he take the schismatic position of refusing to recognise the Pope as the pontiff. So, by all means withhold donations to the groups you name, never fail to correct errors/heresies when they are published, even coming from those at the highest levels, but anyone who wants to remain a Catholic, cannot decide to sack the Pope!

      Note: we do not refer to Pope Francis as “Bergoglio”; we are sometimes forced to do so if we are publishing an article which is, otherwise, very good, but we dislike it because it signals disrespect for the papal office. No matter how we dislike or abhor this present pope, he holds that supreme office, which demands our honour and respect when speaking of any Pope. I’ve yet to see any comments from visiting bloggers here referring to Pope John Paul II as “Wojtyła” – in fact, I had to Google just now to remind myself of his surname! So, “Bergoglio” is frowned upon here, in every sense of the word! Refer to Pope Francis either by his papal name or papal office. Nothing else is permitted, please and thank you.

      • No excommunication of Biden peloai and dem libtards .Or german apostate or Packama idol worshipping and homosexual clergy. By contrast

        • Pelosi is proper spelling. Irish Priest Dolan during Mass Announced he was a Sodomite and urged his Dublin church parishioners in a Homily to vote in Favor of the vote FOR Homosexual marriage in vote in 2015.. As did FOURTEEN other priests there.No action by D Martin then or during the vote in Erin 3 yrs. later to promote abortion.

  2. This is awful! How can they say that they’re not committing an act of schism when they are withdrawing themselves from communion with the Holy See? It doesn’t make sense.

    One’s father may make mistakes but it doesn’t change the fact that he’s still one’s father. The same applies to our spiritual fathers and especially the Holy Father.

    • Margaret USA,

      I agree, it is awful, and how sad, but they are withdrawing themselves from communion with the Holy See. This is not the first time that there has been a serious crisis within the Catholic Church. We only need to remember Saint Athanasius during the Arian crisis, who cleaved to Tradition.

      https://archive.fatima.org/crusader/cr103/cr103pg34.pdf

      We need to offer prayer and penance for divine intervention to end this crisis. That, and the Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

        • +Fr. Gruner (eternal memory!) said that the Collegial Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary will not happen until the Holy Father reveals the Third Secret of Fatima, i.e. the exact words of Our Lady which follow:

          “In Portugal, the dogma of the Faith will always be preserved…” and which are held by “etc” in the Fourth Memoir of Sister Lucia.

          +Fr. Gruner said that God is withholding the graces necessary for the Collegial Consecration because Pope John XXIII did not reveal the Third Secret in 1960. Every pope since then has NOT revealed it.

          Just as a father is angry if the children disobey their mother, so God is angry because He wants the words of Our Lady revealed.

          Until that’s done, He will not give the graces necessary for the Collegial Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, and we will not have peace.

    • Margaret USA,

      Well, Papa Francis is doing more than making a few “mistakes” – make no mistake about it! He’s easily the worst ever pontiff in the Church’s history and he is about as faithful to Catholic Tradition as the EU chiefs love Brexit! In other words, not remotely. He is definitely presenting himself as an enemy of the Faith but that still does not give us the right or the authority to anathematize him. Only those acting on their emotions, are doing that. Those who know the Faith, respond as has Carlos to quote: “The night that shrouds us is dark indeed, but the dawn must come. Our faith and our long history assure us of it.”

  3. Fr Stephen de Kerdrel has form for strange behaviour. He was involved in the blasphemous TYME ‘rave Masses’ held in the Westminster Archdiocese back in the 1990’s. I went along to witness these blasphemous events and on one occasion remonstrated with him about the terrible abuses. He couldn’t get shot of me quick enough. I’d later heard he had become more ‘traditional’ but it seems this latest episode shows that his judgement does seem to be impaired when it comes to matters of the Faith.

    • WF,

      How very interesting that you have had personal knowledge and an encounter with Fr Stephen de Kerdrel – and of the kind that only confirms the fact that those who exceed their authority in this matter act on emotions and/or poor judgment, not to mention a lack of elementary knowledge about the workings of Holy Mother Church.

      You are so right – his judgement is definitely impaired in matters of Faith, and those who have followed his lead and signed the declaration show the same lack of good judgment.

      • ‘Acting emotional.’ That is the key. The great irony of the war on our Faith is that it has degraded our ability to reason clearly. Feelings this, feelings that. Trust your feelings, follow your heart! Everywhere feelings are held up as the arbiters of right and wrong, good and bad, the means of deciding what to do with our lives. This exultation of heart over head, feelings over reason has produced this present world of emotionally incontinent snowflakes huddling in safe spaces for fear of having their feelings hurt.

        It is these, our times, that are the true dark ages.

        p.s.
        I agree that no one should give a dime to Peter’s Pence and the Bishops Annual Appeal. I would add Catholic Charities and CCHD to that list.

  4. What would have been good would have been if Bishop McGee had made some comments about understanding the worries of Catholics about this pope – instead, there’s nothing from him at all, just the excommunication as reported. I can’t find any mention of it on the diocese of Argyll & Isles website.

    If the Scots bishops don’t see any problem with Pope Francis, and that’s how it looks, then that only makes it more difficult for Catholics not to go to the extreme, like these hermits.

  5. I wonder if His Excellency will also excommunicate all the active homosexuals, abortion providers/supporters and Freemasons over whom he rules? I also wonder why a tiny group of three hermits – unless I’m mistaken, barely a blip on the radar, unless there are more than three not mentioned in the article – has received this punishment, as if they were a major threat to this [corrupt] Pontificate?

    I can’t help but think there is more to this than meets the eye, that “more” being in addition to the background provided by Westminster Fly.

    • RCA Victor,

      That is a huge nail hammered firmly on the head. As ever, the first (and only) to be excommunicated are those with an adherence to Catholic Tradition, faith and morals, never the apostates. So, well said.

      You can take it as read, that the Scottish Bishops, to a man, more or less, are Francis fans. I’m told there’s one who is not but until the “good guys” speak out, they are not, in my considered opinion “the good guy(s)”.

      We, the faithful are looking for leadership and we are not getting it, either from the “professional traditionalists” or anywhere else. Indeed, I’m told by one traveller that the traditionalist priests around the continent of Europe are distinguishable from the rest solely by the fact that they offer the TLM exclusively. As far as everything else goes, they are as modern as the next priest; they exhort the faithful to ditch their TV sets while waxing lyrical about the latest popular show(s) on their own set.

      No wonder Sr Lucy of Fatima told us not to wait to be taught by the clergy – we’ll have a long wait. We need to keep ourselves educated in the Faith, ignore both the heresies and the extremist nonsense, and pray for an end to the current madness.

  6. Having had a brief look around this Diocese’s website, it seems this Bishop fully conforms to the Francis mold (and there are two ways to take “mold”), such as: under the “Justice and Peace” section, they promote the “Care for Our Common Home” lunacy. Under “To be a priest in Scotland” there is no mention of the Holy Sacrifice, and topped off by this inexplicable image:

    https://priestsforscotland.org.uk/to-be-a-priest-in-scotland/

    One comes away with the feeling that it is just embarrassing to want to be a priest in Scotland.

    • RCA Victor,

      What a disgrace! All those priests supposedly encouraging vocations to the priesthood and not ONE of them explains ANYTHING about the priesthood – just nonsense like “Give it a try…”ye’ve got nuthin’ tae lose”… ! Who on God’s earth would want to sacrifice a normal, married and family life, for this nonentity. There’s no question mark there because it purely rhetorical. Answer: nobody with any sense.

      I’ve copied the video here in case others fail to visit that page – thanks for the link. One of these days, I’ll use this video to launch a separate thread on the priesthood because if ever a group of the ordained worked together to desacralize the priesthood, and totally FAIL to motivate possible future vocations, it’s this lot.

      • Editor,

        Those priests “encouraging” vocations are a joke. Sorry to be so disrespectful but can you just imagine a bunch of people from any other profession speaking about their jobs in such a general way, not really saying anything?

      • What a ridiculous video – everyone saying you must give it a go, nothing to lose, great life, etc. but nobody giving any details. It’s just beyond belief. A young man beginning to think about the priesthood would be scratching his head and saying “but what does a priest actually do?” You’re no wiser at the end than when it started.

        I wonder if someone can identify each of the priests/seminarian in the film. There’s a list of names at the end, but as each one is speaking, it doesn’t say who is who. I’d be interested to know, since I’ve heard of some of them but don’t know them by sight. I did recognise the archbishop, obviously, LOL!

      • ACT LIKE A NAZI

        Ed: what a ridiculous thing to say – it seems that you are suggesting that a bishop who rightly exercises his authority to excommunicate someone who denies a central dogma of the Faith is acting like a “Nazi”? Don’t be daft.

        And by the way, if we are so unimportant to you that you think you can come on here when it suits you, with ridiculous sound-bite comments, think again. You’re already in moderation and unless you post something which makes sense and which also shows respect for our bloggers when, like RCA Victor, he asked you to elaborate further on your nonsensical post, then go away. We can manage, just about, without your input.

    • Hollie,

      I would also like to know what you mean by “not this” but if you mean excommunication, well, that’s not really true.

      Our Lord did let people go when they refused to accept his teaching, such as the teaching on the Eucharist when some disciplies said they couldn’t accept that Jesus could give his body and blood as food. He didn’t call them back and say “that’s OK then” but he turned to the others and asked if they wanted to leave the Church as well.

    • Hollie,

      Josephine is correct – if you are saying that Our Lord wouldn’t “excommunicate” anyone, then, sorry, but you are wrong. Our Lord did. The word isn’t used, of course (neither is “Trinity”!) but Christ did set out a process of excommunication – for example, in the Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 18:15–17, where he teaches us to go to an offender privately first, then with others in the community if he/she refuses to repent but ultimately, if they continue in their aberrant behaviour, they are to be treated as one who is outside the Church.

      There are other examples, but the above will serve to remind us all, yet again, that the “gentle Jesus” of popular imagination, where, in His gentleness, Christ doesn’t really care what any of us do, how much we sin, is NOT found anywhere in the pages of the New Testament.

  7. I hope our Brothers and Sisters in the faith talk with the Hermits and bring them back to their senses so they can fight the good fight along with the rest of us. In union with Christ in this matter as stated above. Pray for them. We don’t want them isolated. We need all the help we can get in solidarity in Christ.

    • The Lord’s Place,

      Unfortunately, we are not in any position to talk to them. They’re living on one of the Scottish islands and I avoid our far-flung Islands like a member of Scottish Slimmers avoids chocolate.

      Who knows, they may see this thread and perhaps repent of their public schism – we hope so – but, if not, all we can do is to pray for them.

  8. Well I agree with this statement:

    The reason for the excommunication was a declaration published in summer on the hermits’ website calling Francis “a great heretic” and stating that “never in history has there been such a Pope, who by his actions, words, and teaching, has thrown the whole Church into confusion.”

    However, I agree with editor’s statement that we have no right to decide these matters. It’s the Lord’s prerogative and, boy, won’t he exercise it! Can’t wait!

    • Vianney,

      This supposed entertainment is not what I would expect a priest to be doing at all. And, yes Vianney I agree that it was disgraceful behaviour. I wonder if the Irish Bishops would be amused rather than calling him in for a strong talking about this matter.

      • Theresa Rose,

        You got that one right – the Irish bishops would certainly see the scooter exit as amusing. And these are men to whom we are supposed to look for advice, example, virtue? Kidding, right?

    • Vianney,

      You can bet your last penny on that one. He’s more likely to be promoted – in the not-so-far-distant past, as you may recall, we were scandalised to find one of our home-grown public dissenters promoted despite his manifest apostasy from the Faith, not to mention Morals. Infamous for dishing out the most immoral advice on abortion, homosexuality and the rest during his stint as an Agony Uncle on a radio show which reached the entire east-coast of Scotland; one Father-Call-Me-Andy Monaghan, was rewarded by being named an Honorary Canon; now listed among the retired clergy, perhaps because the police investigation may be re-opened if further evidence is presented, or so we were informed by the Crown Office (as reported in our newsletter at the time of our enquiry.)
      https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/forth-2-radio-presenter-priest-4824929

      Yes, it takes a lot to have a Scots priest disciplined, let alone excommunicated and I think it is fairly obvious, from that disgraceful scooter clip, that it is exactly the same in Ireland. If readers recall, the Archbishop of Dublin made short work of a Scots priest working in his archdiocese just a few short years ago, when a certain teacher organised a protest against him for …. drum roll… reminding pupils that when they attended the next school Mass, nobody should receive Holy Communion who was not in the habit of going to Confession and Mass (I paraphrase, but that was the message he was trying to get across). Imagine his shock when the teacher contacted the local radio station, stoked the flames among some parents to ensure that complaints reached the archdiocesan offices and, ultimately Father was offered Hobson’s Choice; apologise (for upholding Canon Law) or go back to Scotland. He chose the latter course. By the way, at almost exactly the same time, a priest in another Dublin parish was “outing” himself, exhorting his parishioners to vote for same-sex “marriage” in the forthcoming referendum. He was given a standing ovation. So, yip, no question of dissenters or apostates being disciplined, let alone excommunicated, in this part of the world. More chance of Pope Francis praying a rosary…

    • Vianney,

      That priest makes me think of when youngsters are mortified by their parents trying to be “with it” in front of their friends. Why do these “with it” priests not realise they are making idiots of themselves?

  9. I see little point in excommunicating those people when they have declared for themselves that they are cutting themselves off from the Church. They have done the job on their own.

    • John,

      Very important point. The fact that the Bishop made a point of declaring a public excommunication (since the “hermits” did publicly sever themselves from the authority of the Pope), when he (like his brother Bishops) turns a blind eye and/or actively supports heretics and de facto schismatics (from the Faith) day and daily, will make an interesting case study for a future student (or millions of them) when this dire period in Church history comes to be researched and written up for the history books.

  10. I don’t for one minute think the hermits should separate themselves from the barque of Peter whoever the incubent be, even a heretic! Therefore the bishop was right to excommunicate them but, it really is a bit rich when one thinks of all the dreadful abuses which go unpunished. In my opinion, the worst abuse is the irreverence shown towards the blessed sacrament which is driven by these same bishops who allow, nay even encourage, the people to handle Him like a biscuit. Even a bad pope like the present one pales into insignificance when compared to these sacrileges. I often wonder if the hierarchy even believe in the Real Presence!

  11. Helen,

    You should send your bishop this video:

    As for the hierarchy believing in the Real Presence, I’d say they prefer to believe in the Unreal Francis…

  12. Does anyone know why Bp. McKee is the one who has excommunicated the hermits? Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t think that he is local ordinary for the Orkney Islands, but rather he’s the ordinary for Argyll and the Isles. I think it’s Bp. Hugh Gilbert who is the ordinary for Orkney. So why wasn’t Bp. Gilbert the one who excommunicated the hermits?

  13. There has been a reaction from the three hermits excommunicated by Bishop McGee. To quote them, “They call it heartless and stress it hardly shows the spirit of mercy so extolled by Pope Francis”. Is this an example of the pot calling the kettle black”?

    https://gloria.tv/post/8uqdXSigMsoYAR83jPK4fL2Ke

    As Carlos 10101 – they should not have separated themselves. And, this is a pontificate we must endure. It is indeed a sad state of affairs.

    • I looked at the Aberdeen Diocese website but can’t see any mention of Westray or any other island for that matter. I also looked at the map of parishes on the Argyll & Isles website but Westray is not listed with the other islands. So, it really is a mystery!

      • Fidelis, perhaps I missed another reply to your question but, just in case…. Westray is one of the Orkney Islands with a population of around 600 persons. There are over 70 islands, about 20 of which are inhabited on a regular basis. Bishop Hugh Gilbert is the present bishop of Aberdeen which is the largest diocese in Scotland and includes the Shetland and Orkney isles aka as the Northern Isles.

  14. Did these hermits take their vows before any Scottish Bishop or Superior General, or was it of their own initiative?

    I do not concern myself with regards to whether Pope Francis is a heretic, material or formal. I doubt if he knows if he is a heretic as he seems to be clueless about theology. Was he taught Catholic truth as a child in Argentina, or not? If so, did the Jesuits knock it out of him. I am not a Cardinal and hence do not have the authority of a member of that collegiate body to pronounce upon Francis’s status as to whether he has deposed himself.

    What did concern me was if he was validly elected in the first place. Was Benedict XVI’s resignation valid? Did he vacate the See under duress? Was he presented with a choice a) resign and all will be well, or b) refuse to resign and we’ll murder you and your brother and all you hold dear. A true Catholic would have opted for the latter and been martyred. Such a choice did not take away his free will.

    What was the role of the former Sankt-Gallen Mafia and it’s former members still voting members of the College, namely Cardinal Danneels. I thought that over many times. Cardinals will have been aware of any subterfuge and dirty deals, and Cardinals such as +Burke, +Caffara and +Meisner will have known and made concerns known, both during the conclave and after. I know the secrecy of a conclave, but if a Pope is an impostor then surely this oath of secrecy can be broken?

    Why does a conclave have to kept secret anyway? Every thing that is hidden shall be revealed. The appointment of Matthias as Bishop was not a secret as it is well recorded in Acts.

  15. Comment deleted

    Ed: the situation of the hermits who have publicly denied all recognition of the authority of the Pope, is in no way remotely similar to the case of Archbishop Lefebvre. I suggest you read up on this important matter before posting such misleading comments – they will never be published here.

    • It’s fine if you don’t want to publish my posts. I understand.
      Editor… Phew! That’s a relief!]

      But did the Hermits say that they deny all recognition and authority of the Pope? Are you sure about that? After all, they still refer to the Pope as Pope Francis. They can’t be, for instance, sedevacantists (which is a good thing).
      Editor: here’s what they said (published in their Declaration at the top of this page…

      We who are watchmen for the Church, who must speak from the watch tower of Truth, have no option but to withdraw our obedience from Pope Francis and sever communion with the Holy See(xxi)

      “Withdrawing obedience” where the Pope is preaching error, is the right thing to do. That’s not schismatic. That’s all that Archbishop Lefebvre did. That’s what we are doing. “severing communion with the Holy See” [which clearly includes the Pope] is another matter – that’s quite different – that IS to enter a schismatic state.

      Archbishop Lefebvre said that Rome is in Apostasy. He was quite clear about that. But if you want to deny what Archbishop Lefebvre stood for, that’s your choice. It’s okay. But some of us won’t do that.
      Editor: I repeat, Archbishop NEVER denied that the Pope is the Pope. We don’t deny that the Pope is the Pope. We didn’t need to make a declaration to say that, though, we don’t want to distract from the work of resisting Pope Francis’s errors and, well, seeing him off, not to put too fine a point on it. You can perhaps understand now, whey I was reluctant to post this thread. There’s always a “Marcy Ray” waiting in the wings to muddy the waters when the situation is clear; we have a bad Pope. Bad popes are not, after all, only to be found in the Middle Ages.

      God bless you.

      Editor: He does! In many ways, Deo gratias!

  16. I agree that Archbishop Lefebvre never denied that the Pope is the Pope. I have not said that he had ever denied that the Pope is the Pope. That’s not really the issue. You may be surprised to hear it, but I spend a lot of time debating against sedevacantism. Especially against the obnoxious sedes who say that if Archbishop Lefebvre were alive today, he would be a sedevacantist. Which is nonsense. As I have mentioned previously, the Archbishop didn’t focus so much on the Pope as he did on the entirety of Rome being Modernists. That is perhaps where the Hermits err, in thinking that the problem of Modernism lies mainly in the Pope. It doesn’t.

    Even if a good and saintly pope were to be elected, not much would change, because the rest of the hierarchy in Rome are Modernists, for the most part. There are exceptions, of course. And, we don’t want to think that we are the only Catholics left on earth, so we have to be somewhat charitable to even the Novus Ordo Catholics, some of whom still do have the Faith.

    I still think that the Hermits aren’t sedevacantists. They may be in danger of becoming sedes, but that doesn’t seem to be the case yet. They could use some prayers, don’t you agree?

    I’m a loyal adherent of Archbishop Lefebvre. Maybe it’s been awhile since you’ve read some of his books? I recommend his book, “Open letter to confused Catholics,” as a reminder of what he stood for, which was, above all, the Catholic Faith.

    Editor: Like any other “boss”, the buck stops with the Pope. Of COURSE he is the problem, not “Modernist Rome”. You are wrong to say that “even if a good and saintly pope were to be elected not much would change” So much for the office of Supreme Pastor and the supernatural graces which accompany it. If your theory were correct, we’d have no need of a Pope, just make sure “Rome” is sound – gerragrip.

    You obviously haven’t visited our website in a while – there’s a copy of the Archbishop’s Open Letter linked there and I’m looking at my hard copy right now, so don’t be silly.

  17. Do you believe, as the good Archbishop Lefebvre did, that there’s such as thing as a conciliar church? The good Archbishop said that he adhered to Eternal Rome, rather than Modernist Rome. How do you feel about his stance, regarding this?

    Editor: I don’t like this kind of talk because it can (and does) mislead the ignorant into thinking that there has been a “split” in the Church, whereas this is not possible. One is either IN the Catholic Church or out of it. The fact is that Christ bequeathed unity on His Church from the beginning and those who deny any truth of the Faith, place themselves outside of the Church. So, there remains only one Church, but there are dissenters and apostates who are, at the moment, in positions of authority within the Church. This was happening prior to the Second Vatican Council (think Pius XII being fooled into permitting dialogue Masses which were but a long-term preparation for the novus ordo “responses”-driven Mass, among other things – and which, sadly, are the norm right across Europe, including in the SSPX churches) and only accelerated after Vatican II. So, while we all know what the Archbishop meant when he referred to “the Conciliar Church”, and what he meant was really what I’ve just described; that unbelievers were put into positions of authority within Christ’s Church, not that there were two Churches, notwithstanding that the abandonment of Catholic Tradition in so many areas of the Faith, gave/gives that impression. Thus, I, personally, never use that sort of language because, as I’ve already said, it can mislead people and lead them into a schismatic mentality. I’ve witnessed this, sadly, first hand, and I’m sure it’s not at all what the Archbishop intended; indeed, he expressed the fear that, were this irregular situation to continue indefinitely, it would lead to a schismatic mentality. And, sadly, his fear has come to pass – too many self-styled “traditionalists” are quite content to see themselves in the “true Church” as opposed to the “Conciliar Church” – poor souls.

    Now, since this thread is not about the SSPX, I won’t be releasing any more of your posts on the subject. Off topic, but thank you for allowing some much-needed clarifications as in this latest comment from your good self.

    • I agree with editor’s note- I find it offputting when I hear SSPX-ers speaking about “modernist Rome” and the “conciliar church” although I know what they mean, that the teaching authority of the Church has been weakened and clouded since Vatican II when the lunatics started running the asylum! It does grate with me though and I keep thinking “why not just say that the Church is being attacked from within? Modernists are being promoted etc”. That’s much easier to understand and explain than these terms “eternal/modernist Rome” and “conciliar church”. No disrespect to Archbishop Lefebvre but I think it he was still with us today, seeing how many of his followers really do have a schismatic mentality and don’t want to be regularised, he would amend his language to make his position clearer.

      That’s my tuppence worth anyway!

      Sorry editor, I’ve just realised that you don’t want this discussion to continue so please just delete if you wish.

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