Did Pope Deny the Divinity of Christ?

From Rorate Caeli…

We cannot remain silent about this unbelievable episode, which many of you are certainly aware of. The following:

Eugenio Scalfari, former director of La Repubblica published an article last Tuesday in which he writes: “Those who have had the fortune of meeting and conversing with him in utmost cultural confidence, the way I have several times, know that Pope Francis conceives the Christ as Jesus of Nazareth, man, not God incarnate. Once incarnated, Jesus ceases to be God and becomes man until His death on the cross.”

So a very well-known journalist asserts in one of the most widely-read Italian newspapers that Pope Francis does not believe in the Divinity of Jesus Christ. If this was true, Pope Francis would be a formal heretic, like the Arians, the Ebionites and the Socinians.  Click here to read more…
And click here to read Archbishop Viganò’s plea to the Pope to affirm his belief in Christ’s divinity. 

Comments invited…   

24 responses

  1. Comment deleted – off topic.

    There is a recent climate change thread already on this blog, in which, if my memory serves me correctly, you failed to answer a direct question in response to your lengthy comment there. Do NOT use this blog to spread your own “message” about anything. Stick to the topic, and if you are asked for an answer, have the basic courtesy to reply, even if only to say “I don’t know” – Editor.

  2. The Vatican response to this report has been incredibly weak. The fact that they don’t say “of course this is not true, of course the Pope is not denying the divinity of Christ” suggests to me that Scalfari, yet again, is being used [useful idiot that he is!] to get out the Pope’s real beliefs.

  3. I don’t want to hear from the Vatican on this crucial matter. I agree with Archbishop Vigano who says we need the Pope himself to give a “clear answer.”

      • I totally agree. The fact that the Pope didn’t come out himself to correct this, proves that he did say it. A pope who doesn’t believe in the divinity of Christ – can it get much worse?

  4. Neither this Pope nor the Vatican are capable of giving clear answers. That would be contrary to the “spirit of Vatican II,” whose M.O. is to spread confusion with lack of clarity! Have we had clear answers since Vatican II? Rarely.

    Spreading confusion via a senile atheist is just another clever way to achieve the goal.

    Just about the only clarity we can expect, these days, is from prelates who are either enemies of the regime (e.g. Abp. Vigano), or who have fallen out of favor (e.g. Cardinals Burke and Mueller, and Bishop Schneider).

    • RCA Victor,

      One person you omitted from your list of clear speakers – yourself !

      Your comment is crystal clear and I totally concur.

      I would only add that I wish all the bishops on your list would (a) speak out more loudly and more often and (b) actually DO something – I’m not sure what, but DO something to call this pope to account. Saying that, maybe they are working behind the scenes on that, or maybe, given his age, they’re just keeping their fingers crossed, LOL!

      • Josephine,

        I think we are all crying out for the hierarchy to be doing something – and not just the faithful handful of them, but in large numbers. I suspect those who are opposed to the confusion are quite large in number, but are silenced by fear.

        However, there’s another thing to consider: how many of the prelates are willing to admit, let alone recognize, that the entire Vatican II era has brought nothing but confusion and ruin to the Church? How many of them, while opposed to the cunning destructiveness of Francis, are still in “new springtime” la-la land?

        It’s like assuring your child that a tablespoon of arsenic (Pope Francis) is terrible, deadly poison, but a drop or two (the other Conciliar Popes) is salutary!

        And while we’re on the subject of la-la land, where were these few outspoken prelates 20 years ago? I recall us discussing Cardinal Mueller’s heterodoxy on this blog not all that many years ago, after he was appointed Prefect. And now, he speaks the truth quite clearly.

        • RCA Victor,

          Spot on – where are all the other bishops, why are not more speaking out plainly to echo Archbishop Vigano? Yes, they are probably afraid but given their ages, should they not be mindful of Archbishop Vigano’s other words about standing before the Judge at his death, when, he asks the rhetorical question, what answer could he give for remaining silent?

          I, too, recall that blog discussion about the then newly appointed Cardinal Mueller – what a turnaround. Wonder if he’d read the blog and realised the error of his ways? 😀

  5. I don’t know if Francis said Yes or No to the Divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ. What I will say is if I had a conversation with someone which was very Personal and this someone whether Friend or Foe Gossiped about it which is as far as am concerned happened here . Then I doubt very much if I would ever have a conversation with that person again . For one it most definitely doesn’t see the Slandering Person with any integrity and Francis has had a few of these Chit Chats with this Man . Personally he would most certainly be off of my best friends list and my Life is nothing to send letters to some Daily Rag about.

    • FOOF,

      In normal polite society, if a person betrayed a personal conversation, he would indeed be guilty of slander, or detraction at the very least.

      But this Pope doesn’t travel in normal polite society: he inhabits a corrupt, disoriented little world, consumed with lust for power, a compete perversion of Jesuit training and ideals.

      And as if that’s not bad enough, he is just using this atheist to sow more confusion.

  6. We should “accompany” these clerics on their journey.

    About 200 yards across St. Peter Square.

    To a large pile of chopped dry wood.

    Worked in the past.

  7. I honestly do believe the Pope said this. Scalfari has revealed private conversations which he had with the Pope in the past, such as the Pope’s denial of Hell and belief in Annihilationism. As one blogger said above, I would not engage in conversation, in confidence, with someone I knew was a serial gossip. Likewise, the Vatican’s response, saying that it was a free and personal interpretation of what the Pope said, still means that the Pope denied Christ’s divinity. If the Pope said he believed in it, then Scalfari cannot interpret that to say that the Pope denies it. Hence, he said it, just not in the same words that Scalfari used. If Scalfari is twisting the Pope’s words then he is a liar, and why is the Vatican receiving him?

    It would be simpler for us if the church was run in the same way as the Orthodox Church, because if one of their Patriarchs falls into heresy, then a council is convened and the Patriarch is deposed.

    It is high time the few Cardinals who hold to the faith issued a canonical correction. I expect they will be excommunicated by this Stalinist Pope, but I rest in the knowledge that, like the ‘excommunications’ of St Athanasius and Archbishop Lefebvre, they will be invalid.

  8. It is obvious that Pope Francis does not adhere to the Catholic religion. I agree with Catholic Convert1 that it is time for good cardinals to issue a canonical correction in whatever way is possible.

    There’s no use shooting the messenger. Scalfari is a journalist and he has been open about being an atheist from the beginning. Pope Francis favours him for his interviews, so that alone tells us all we need to know about this pope.

  9. An interesting article from Lifesitenews: https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/3-possibilities-to-explain-new-did-pope-say-jesus-is-not-god-scandal?utm_source=LifeSiteNews.com&utm_campaign=5c676c847f-Catholic_10_17_19&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_12387f0e3e-5c676c847f-402144653

    To me they seem to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. They are trying to excuse him.

    I am at the end of my tether. I cannot and will not refer to Francis as ‘Holy Father’. He is not holy because he is a heretic and an individual who has repeatedly endangered souls and caused scandal and I cannot call him father as a good father cares for and nurtures his children. He is a wolf, sent to scatter the sheepfold.

    • The Catholic Church does not teach that there are three persons in one divine nature. This is not in the Apostles Creed. What Catholics must believe is that God communicates with us in three ways. He or She gave us Jesus Christ (Son), He or She created us and keeps us in existence (Father), and He or She answers our prayers (Holy Ghost). To say that Jesus is not divine implies that God is a finite being and can do many things at once, like humans. When finite beings communicate with one another the communication is always imperfect. When God communicates with us the communication is always perfect. I saw nothing in the quotation attributed to the Pope that was heretical.

      • David,

        You are promoting heresy in your comment. The dogma of the Trinity is, of course, in the Apostles Creed – “I believe in God,the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth,and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit…”

        And there is not a single sentence anywhere, revealing God as “female” so it is a nonsense – and highly uneducated nonsense at that – to refer to God as “He or She”. God is revealed throughout Scripture as male, and the daft PC brigade need to get over it.

        To deny Christ’s divinity is to deny the articles of Faith defined in the Apostles Creed. End of. The fact that you saw nothing in the Pope’s words to be heretical is explained by the fact that YOU favour heresy, so be aware that, as stated in our House Rules, we welcome contributions from people who are not Catholics, but only if they realise that we are not here to be “converted” out of our Catholic Faith.

        For that reason, and since – on past experience – you are likely to persist in your efforts to undermine our Faith, I will be returning you to moderation and your posts will only be released when I see them, and then only if they conform to our House Rules. This will now be a permanent arrangement. Or, to put it another way, no more Mzzzz Nice Gal…

      • I’m sorry but you a bit off here. What Catholics, and for that matter all Christians must believe is in the Holy Trinity. In Genesis 1:2 the Holy Spirit is present with God at the moment of creation:

        2 The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep waters. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.

        In John 1:1-2 we are told how Jesus, The Word, was also present at the beginning:

        1 In the beginning the Word already existed.
        The Word was with God,
        and the Word was God.
        2 He existed in the beginning with God.

        To continue in Peter, Mark, Matthew, and Luke the Transfiguration is described. Additionally through out the Gospels, in Acts, and Revelation Jesus refers to himself and is revered to as Son of Man. Finally when Jesus tide from the dead, as promised, is arguably the greatest proof of His divinity. Before Jesus assented into heaven and took His seat he told His disciples that ANOTHER was coming. The Holy Spirit. Again Holy Trinity.
        The only difficulty in understanding or communicating the Word of God is that man has a tendency to try to rewrite or bend it to suit themselves. Whether it’s a way to justify our sins, the want to adapt to whatever pop culture dictates at that moment, or just plan laziness doesn’t make it any more true or right.

        God bless

        • Sledge Abbamonte,

          Just to be clear, I take it you mean David Roemer is “a bit off here”, not editor?

          I’m no theologian but I’d say DR is more than a bit off – he’s very clearly wrong. God has revealed himself as Father, Son and Holy Spirit, although the word “trinity” is not in Scripture, that is what the Church has been able to see revealed and that is what we all say in the Creed.

          • I’ve spoken with many people like David before. In most cases they’re just trying to get a rise or anger people with what they have to say. But in some cases they’re truly unaware, so to speak calmly and earnestly is, I’ve found, the best way to address them. Regardless of his intentions I hope to show him the truth. But thanks for saying something, I feel like not enough people are willing to speak up.

            God bless

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: