Anti-Catholic Culture Reigns In Scotland

Catholics face “alarming levels of intolerance” 
Thursday 15 June 2017

Giving evidence to the Equalities and Human Rights Committee of the Scottish Parliament today (15th June 2017) Anthony Horan, Director of the Catholic Parliamentary Office claimed; “a culture of fear prevents people from being open about their faith.”

Mr. Horan who was giving evidence to MSP’s on the topic of bullying and harassment in schools, with an emphasis on anti-religious prejudice. The Committee heard evidence from a number of people, including representatives of the Church of Scotland, Muslim Community, Jewish Community, and the Scottish Secular Society.

In his comments to MSP’s, Mr. Horan said;

“My overriding concern about this subject is the culture of fear that runs right through society and which makes people feel, at best uncomfortable, and at worst totally frightened to be open about their faith. In my written submission to the Committee I provided testimonies of a number of young people who had experienced anti-Catholic prejudice in their school, most of it relating to the Church’s teaching on abortion and marriage. One student even dropped a subject to “avoid the harassment.”

Mr. Horan added;

“There is an alarming level of intolerance being levelled at some young people simply because they are Catholic or because they hold a particular view that others may disagree with. This is not a culture of tolerance and respect. We have to be very mindful of the need to tackle anti-religious behaviour and be wary of creating a hierarchy of rights in relation to the protected characteristics listed in the Equality Act 2010. We cannot allow some to trump others. It must be all or nothing.”

“There is also the sad reality of an increase in religious hate crime in Scotland, with a recently published report revealing that religiously aggravated crime is at an all time high. Within that, a deeply worrying and disturbing 57% of charges are as a result of anti-Catholic behaviour. Compare this to the percentage of charges relating to Protestantism (27%) and Islam (17%) and we are left with an undoubted sectarian problem that needs to be addressed.”

Mr. Horan concluded;

“If we are to build a culture of tolerance and respect for our young people we need to take on board the hard facts which reveal to us the reality of hate crime in our country and allow people across all protected characteristics to feel free to express themselves and to be open about their faith.”   ENDS
Press Release from Scottish Catholic Media Office

Comment:

Well I hope the penny’s dropped.  Providing “safe spaces” for allegedly “gay” pupils hasn’t made Catholic schools any “safer” for the wider Catholic pupil population.  And the craze for ecumenical activity hasn’t changed the anti-Catholic culture of bigotry in Scotland one bit. Those who would naturally NOT be bigoted – people genuinely trying to live Christian lives according to their lights – remain tolerant.  The rest remain IN-tolerant.  So best to go down the tried (for two thousand years) and tested road of seeking to explain the Faith and win converts to it.  Watering down Faith and Morals hasn’t worked. That’s for sure. Or maybe you disagree? Let’s hear it… 

56 responses

  1. I was astounded to read the statistics – e.g. “religiously aggravated crime is at an all time high. Within that, a deeply worrying and disturbing 57% of charges are as a result of anti-Catholic behaviour. Compare this to the percentage of charges relating to Protestantism (27%) and Islam (17%) and we are left with an undoubted sectarian problem that needs to be addressed.”

    That’s been a well kept secret. I don’t recall reading that in the local press. It does surprise me, though, because I actually thought people don’t care enough to be bigoted, LOL!

    • Laura,

      I agree – the statistics speak for themselves. All the nonsense about Scotland being a “socially progressive” country, blah blah is seen in its true colours in these stats.

      In any case, when I hear “progressive”, I tend to think of cancer.

      • Ed taking all things into consideration I would say the numbers are quite low and if you don’t believe me ask Patrick Harvie . As someone who worked in construction all my life I will NEVER forget my first day as an Apprentice. As someone out of the sticks in Lanarkshire I didn’t know much about Bigotry but was soon to learn and learn quickly. My tradesman first asked my name then asked how did I get a job with same firm.Like an idiot I said I seen advert in paper ,applied,got an Interview Etc. Naw -he said I mean how did you get the job because of your name . He then proceeded to tell me that on my Very First Day as an Apprentice Engineer that if he was me he would pack it in . Very nice words for a 15 year old to receive on his first day on a Construction Site in Glasgow. Of course things got easier once The Troubles Started and if you believe that as they say al tell you another. The worst I ever received was 18 of us in a Building Site Hut and I was the only Catholic. It’s taken 70 years for the Bigotry to leave me and am only in my 60s . I once worked with a nice Guy from Larkhall who said that -He Would Never Start a Catholic- He then said to me ” when you were an Engineering Supervisor a bet you only started Catholics ” I told him which was true that I started the men whom I thought would be best for the job. Unfortunately this Scotland of ours as far as I can see has only got worse with the Invention of That Reprobate Scottish Parliament. Also I know of ( and you also know them as well ) of the Guys and Gals who certainly thought they’d get ahead quicker were they to ditch the Faith, I actually find them the worst. Plastic Paddies I call them .

        • Faith of our Fathers,

          Yours was a quite common story at one time – I just hope that such blatant bigotry in the workplace is no longer the case. With all the discrimination laws around, you’d think it would be impossible to bar someone from a job on account of their religion. Also, employers won;t be too bothered these days, as most Catholics are “name only” Catholics.

          • Josephine your spot on about the Plastic Paddies as far as am concerned some of them are worse than The Orangemen . At least with them you know exactly where you stand ,or walk .

          • Josephine

            Unfortunately, “name only” Catholics don’t get any more favours or get treated in any way different than “devout” Catholics in this country.

            Even their thoughts on birth control, abortion and same-sex
            shenannigans are listened to with favour since they normally tie in with the popular opinion.

            If you are a Catholic in Scotland then you are a fenian, even if you were born in Asia.

            Mo Johnson, who was probably only ever in a church once in his lifetime, was considered as being as genuine a Catholic as Padre Pio when it suited the occasion.

            There may not be as much discrimination in getting a job but
            there is plenty to suffer for the timid Catholics in the workplaces
            when the subject of child abuse arises. Paedophiles seems to be the favourite word at the moment among the haters when
            describing Catholics

            The abusers themselves have a lot to answer for as they were always well away from the taunting.

        • FOOF

          I have a feeling you didn’t think the phrase Plastic Paddies up by yourself.

          You will/should probably know that it originated from around the time of the racist, sectarian, anti-Catholic song “celebrating” the deaths in the Irish Famine.

          The comical thing about this song of hate, tolerated by the
          law of this friendly wee country on a weekly basis, is that it tells us all to go home.

          I have asked for an answer to this question from those who have sung this “ballad”, as they like to call it. If the home we are invited to return to is in Ireland, then how are we plastic paddies?

          I have yet to be given an answer.

          FOOF. Instead of using a phrase which is now considered anti-Catholic in this country, just call these people turncoats.

          After all, I am considered a Plastic Paddie for reasons different from yours.

          • There was no song celebrating the deaths in the Irish Famine. There was a song taunting Celtic fans over their club’s insistence on playing Famine-inspired music prior to their matches as if was in any way relevant to Celtic plc.

            As Frankie Boyle put it – “the Old Firm is two sets of fat people arguing about a famine.”

          • Frankier actually as far as am concerned whether I thought it up myself is irrelevant. Mostly it’s referring to the ones who want to die for Ireland as am sure your well aware when their full of the bevy. As for myself going back many years to The Troubles I got into many scrapes and one of my best friends joined The PIRA unfortunately he is no longer with us. As I referred back to my earlier comment I have only visited Ireland once for 4 days which was 4 days too much. It was in 1982 and I was shocked at the lack of feelings in the South for The Hunger Strikers . The song Am 90 Miles From Dublin sums up the Plastic Paddies perfectly. If you’ve never heard it I suggest you listen to the words . Sorry Ed for being so Politicall on a Religious Site .

      • Madame Editor,

        “Intolerance will not be tolerated”? That doesn’t make sense.

        Margaret USA

        • Margaret,

          Our society makes a big deal out of preaching “tolerance” – that is, anything goes, we accept everything (especially promiscuity) so anyone (like ourselves) who speaks out against immoral behaviour is now considered to be “INtolerant” and that is not permitted. In other words, our “intolerance” of sexual promiscuity will not be tolerated!

          In fact, where “tolerance” actually just means putting up with something, it has come to mean accepting – so we don’t just put up with immoral behaviour, we accept it as perfectly OK. And if we don’t then our opinions are not “tolerated”, or “accepted” as legitimate.

          Here’s an article on the subject which may be of interest and may explain it better than I have managed to do.

    • RCA Victor,

      That’s what I meant by my rather sarcastic blue comment about the penny dropping. The Scottish Catholic Education people and the Scottish Catholic Media office personnel have been, for so long, pandering to the PC brigade. and the EC (ecumenical) brigade, that they have lost sight of the fact that Catholicism is hated by its enemies, and that applies, even, to the “new” Catholicism.

      I remember once suggesting to a teaching colleague that we invite a religious Sister into school to speak on a particular topic. She was a modernist, of course, and I explained that she was not the “real thing” but on this topic she would be OK. I have never forgotten his response which was: “… but she’s still a Catholic.” Which, it turned out, meant “no thanks”.

      Scotland’s bigotry has been publicly identified as “Scotland’s shame” – and there is no sign of it going away any time soon.

  2. I think we know fine well that Scotland is a bigoted, anti-Catholic country, but is that any different from the rest of GB?

    • Lily,

      I really don’t think the rest of the UK is as bad as Scotland in terms of religious bigotry of the anti-Catholic brand.

      At the time of the Reformation, England sleep walked into the new religion, partly because it retained the trappings of Catholicism – this was brought home to me recently when I attended a funeral in an Episcopal church, the Scottish branch of the Church of England, where they even had a picture of Our Lady of Perpetual Succour hanging on one wall.

      Scotland, however, embraced the new religion of John Knox – a dour religion which pointedly did NOT retain the trappings of Catholicism! It was, in short, pointedly ANTI-Catholic, so yes, we really are different from the rest of the UK in terms of bigotry.

      However, I must confess that the stats surprised me. I would not have guessed it to be that bad. One lives and one learns.

        • Laura,

          Interesting report, but judging by my own personal experience south of the border, it surprises me. I can therefore say in all honesty that, while I may not always be right, I’m never (really) wrong! 😀

        • I would love to know which minister said ““I’m not going to have some bloody reactionary German Pope dictate the law of our land,” said one minister” – as reported in the Lifesitenews article. That is really very telling and it confirms my own feeling that the whole of Britain has anti-Catholic bigotry in it, to some extent. Not everybody of course, I’m not saying that, but it’s not only Scotland where bigotry exists in GB. I just wish the Catholic bishops and priests would waken up and realise that they are playing a pretend game if they think everyone in the Protestant churches are tolerant towards Catholics.

          • Lily

            When they actually find out that the Church, in the form of the loose cannons who are creating havoc in the Vatican at the present time, are looking favourably on birth control, same-sex
            “marriage”, abortion and communion for lechers they will all be suddenly against it.

            There is no way they will ever agree with the Church in anything under the sun.

            I’m quite certain they would love the Church to be in favour of
            murdering unborn children. They then would have their field days and rightly so.

  3. With the Labour Party swinging to the Left things are becoming bad in England too. We do not have the statistics here since bullying is restricted to the question of gays, but there is a growing rise in anti religious sentiments in the media. Tim Farron was removed from the Liberals because he believed Homosexuality was wrong – but here is the amazing thing. It was stated that the attacks related to Catholic positions on Abortion and gay marriage and yet the Moslems are more united in opposing these things than Christians are. We have Tim Farron being swept aside but Siddiq Kahn is in no way asked these views. Of course we know as a Moslem what his views are. I am not attacking Khan, I am just mentioning the hypocrisy of the Left who seem to use the Moslems in some way as the underclass of people whom Christians persecuted. And no matter how many bombs and stabbing there are they will stand shoulder to shoulder with the Moslem Brotherhood…

    • John,

      “Tim Farron was removed from the Liberals because he believed Homosexuality was wrong.”

      Well, when I saw him questioned by journalists on TV, he steadfastly refused to say that he thought homosexuality was a “sin” and then reminded everyone that he’d voted for same-sex “marriage” and had always supported “gay rights”.

      Some Christian! And he’s certainly no martyr for his alleged faith – he’s either lied in the past when he claimed to be pro-life and anti-homosexuality, or he lied when questioned by journalists. Either way, he’s exposed as dishonest and dissembling – and all to get into Parliament to promote even more “liberal” (non) “values”.

      I hope he has some sleepless nights reflecting on those chilling words of Our Lord: “If you deny Me in the presence of men, I will deny you in the presence of My Father in Heaven.”

  4. Totally agree with you Laura and Editor that there is supposed to be a lot of bigotry against Catholics in Scotland in the conciliar church given that most of the bishops and clergy accept the modern laws regarding marriage and abortion. At least their silence on the subjects assumes they accept all.
    When the survey was done to get the statistics did they consult the clergy? LOL

    • Clotide,

      That’s what I don’t get – most Catholics are indistinguishable from the rest of the population, and the Pope is as secular as they come, so I can’t believe that anyone would bother to discriminate against Catholics these days, LOL!

  5. Just a point from a non-Catholic perspective, if you would permit it.

    A quarter of all offences occur in a police station or car and police officers make up 44% of the ‘victims’. Only one religious official was a victim. The police arrest someone for something else and the accused kicks off by calling them a name which is then interpreted by the police as a religiously aggravated offence. The police do not record the religious belief that was targeted. This is done by analysts afterwards based on descriptions of the incident. The religious beliefs of the accused or the victim are not recorded either.

    75% of the arrests were for ‘threatening and abusive’ behaviour for which the religiously aggravated charge was then added i.e. someone was threatening and abusive and then continued to be so in a ‘religious’ way either to the police (44%) or community, that is those in the vicinity but not targeted (29%).

    52% of charges were under the influence of alcohol and most offences occur on Saturday night/Sunday morning. Football (11%) and marches/parades (3%) make up relatively few of the offences.

    Does all constitute an ‘anti-Catholic culture’? I don’t believe so.

    • William,

      I’m sorry but there is no shortage of evidence of an anti-Catholic culture in Scotland. It’s so bad that evidence has been shredded by the powers-that-be
      http://scottishlaw.blogspot.co.uk/2011/10/sectarian-scotland-cover-up-crown.html
      so that we won’t ever know the full extent of it.

      A previous First Minister of Scotland, although I can’t remember his name, once said publicly that Scotland doesn’t have a sectarian problem it has an anti-Catholic problem.

      That doesn’t mean every Protestant or atheist is anti-Catholic but that really is the problem.

      • Lily,

        I cannot speak of 2011 – although the headline seems unnecessarily dramatic – but the figures for 2016/17 show that marches/parades constitute 3% of religiously aggravated offences with previous figures of 3% 5% 6% and 12%, going back to 2012. So the premise of the article is simply untrue.

        The ‘insider’ alleges something sinister when the facts do not bear this ramshackle conspiracy theory out. The numbers do not point to the Crown Office looking to cover anything up.

        When Professor Steve Bruce of Aberdeen University conducted his research into ‘sectarianism’ he found that perception (‘there is definitely victimisation against my beliefs’) outweighed reality (‘I’ve not had any direct experience of it though’) for the vast majority of the respondents.

        • William,

          Would you provide a source for the figures you are giving because there was a lot of concern in the Scottish Parliament not that long ago that the anti-sectarian law discriminated greatly against Catholics.

        • William,

          I forgot to ask you if you are in favour of the Orange marches? Given your username, my guess in that you are. Well, I stay at home on days when I know there will be one in Glasgow as they are patently offensive, and, to be frank, the marchers tend to look very brutish. I definitely wouldn’t cross the road carrying a rosary! LOL!

          • Lily,

            I’m not in the Orange Order, never ‘followed’ an Orange march and have no interest in them. I know of atheists who are in the Orange Order so I’m not even sure if they know what they’re meant to represent anymore.

            I’m not sure I’d say I was in favour of them but I wouldn’t say I was opposed either. I don’t know why they can’t have one big parade once a year rather than several parades during the ‘season’. However, I wouldn’t reach to say they definitely shouldn’t parade at all, ever. I can see the inconvenience, uncomfortable, etc. nature of them but there are others – gay pride, Irish republican, etc. – that can be annoying too.

            My surprise in the statistics was that I thought the numbers would be much higher for parades/marches.

            • Many moons ago on this blog I recorded my personal experience of in-laws once very proud of their Orange identity, but who went on to have humanist funerals. This bears out my feeling that they were never interested in Protestantism as a religion, but used it as a proxy for their bigoted opinions.

              • My wife’s family are quite Orange. They nearly had a canary when she converted. I have to say that the majority of them come along to Traditional Baptisms etc and are very respectful. The old Grandad is the only one who makes a fuss. He has never been a member of any church but refuses point blank to step over the threshold of a Catholic church, the mantra being, “In all my years I’ve never once set foot in a chapel so I’m not starting now!”

                • Petrus,

                  You will probably find that most Orange people never actually go to church. I remember someone telling me that before the Pope’s visit to Scotland a man he knows kept going on about how the Pope should not be allowed to come here and that all Protestants should be standing up to defend their faith. He was asked if he stood up to defend his faith on a Sunday by attending kirk and he replied “oh you don’t want to get fanatical about it.”

                  He apparently has no time for the Dutch Royal family because the House of Orange has more Catholic members than Protestant.

                  • Vianney,

                    “oh you don’t want to get fanatical about it.”

                    That reminds me of an incident some years ago when I suggested, in a family gathering, that we might get some of the nieces/nephews/grandchildren to prepare a little nativity play to perform on Christmas Day to entertain us all, but especially their grandparents. One of my brothers quipped: “There she goes again. Has to drag religion into everything, even Christmas!”

      • Your First Minister comment sounds like Jack McConnell. I would not delve too much into whatever bias he brought to proceedings but McConnell was a heavy backer (with public money, of course) of Nil by Mouth, an alleged anti-sectarian charity.

        Once public money is involved, you have an industry, you have jobs and you have a lot of interests to keep it going.

        I’m led to believe the SNP were all for quietly dropping the whole thing when they came to office but then Neil Lennon and one or two others received threats which created a lot of media pressure to ‘do something’. And so they did.

        • William,

          Yes, it was Jack McConnell who said that and also pointed out that he was not a Catholic, although people often thought he was, due to his name, I suppose.

          I think the SNP would be all for dropping the anti-sectarian charity given their past history – the “NP” is SNP used to stand for “No popery” and I believe they had pens with that printed on them at one time, but now ditched because that is no longer PC.

          • Lily,

            McConnell came up through the West of Scotland Labour party which has a recent history of religious division, to put it diplomatically. It’s hard for me to believe this did not influence his viewpoint.

            I’ve read this about the SNP’s past. I think the modern SNP is very different. I think people like Salmond and Sturgeon have tried, over the last 20 years, to a create a new narrative of ‘progressive’ Scotland, ‘modern’ values, etc. that would not have fitted in Scotland 60 or 70 years ago (and it wasn’t all ‘No Popery’ then!). Many of what the modern SNP spout would have been alien to people back then. You need to question why Scottish nationalism is suddenly so popular when many Scots of previous generations were highly suspicious of it.

            • William,

              I would say that because people (certainly those who are active in political life) are probably more informed about religion and know that there is a crisis in the Catholic Church which has led a majority in Scotland to virtually abandon their beliefs, that they have no problem drinking in the narrative of the SNP and other parties. Catholics, by and large, are as protestantised and secularised as the rest of the Scottish population, which is the irony lost on the bigots – LOL!

              • Josephine,

                I would agree with this. There was an article by James MacMillan in The Spectator a few months ago where he spoke of the damage of ‘cultural Catholicism’ in Scotland and how too many Catholics, including the clergy, are more interested in tribal allegiances and politics than the faith itself. In this respect, the Catholic church is in danger of falling to the same problems that beset Protestant churches – especially the Church of Scotland – where ‘social justice’ is the mantra, rather than the Gospel.

                • William,

                  Unfortunately I did not see the article you refer to in The Spectator, but I will seek it out.

                  I would strongly agree with MacMillan’s position as characterized by you. I have long been of the opinion that Scottish Catholicism has feet of clay, for a variety of reasons.

                  1. It has generally been — at least since Vatican II, but I suspect even before — anti-intellectual. Intellectuals amongst the clergy, especially of an orthodox stamp, are generally frowned upon, and this has given rise to a bishops’ conference populated, with perhaps one or two exceptions, by men who are doctors of the faith in name only.

                  2. The marginalization of the need to have a coherent intellectual understanding of the faith and its relation to the world means that action has by and larged replaced contemplation, when the two — in any pastoral plan worthy of the name — have to be locked in tandem.

                  3. It is extremely clerical. If the role of the laity was formerly to pay, pray and obey, now it is that of aping the priest as extraordinary (i.e Ordinary by another name) ministers of the eucharist, and such like.

                  4. Catholic schools. The only reason I can think of for kerping them is that they deny the state a monopoly on education, something which I consider to be dangerous for society.

                  • Prognosticum,

                    Here is the link if you haven’t been able to find it – https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/08/snp-played-scotlands-catholic-church-fool/

                    You’re better placed than I to analyse the problems of the Catholic Church.

                    It’s been interesting reading on this blog that many Catholics have the view that Catholic schools exist in name only. Speaking of the Orange Order earlier, I know of Orange Order members who send their children to Catholic schools – indeed their children being members of the Order too. Perhaps that’s a damning indictment of both organisations!

                • William,

                  I’m only now catching up with the blog – pre-July edition going to the printers, I’m up to my eyes – and although I’ve a way to go to properly catch up, I’ve gathered that you are not a Catholic, and a “not a Catholic” with some “Orange” sympathies! Well – it’s a free country (or so they keep saying…)

                  Anyway, call it one of those “God-incidences” or whatever, but it happens, perchance, that only a few days ago one of our not-yet-a-Catholic readers asked me to recommend some reading that would explain the Catholic position on “the Church Versus Scripture” – I recommended a couple of booklets including this one.

                  And since it is our deepest desire to turn all “non” Catholics into real, live Catholics, I hope you will read it and get back to us with your thoughts. We can organise the priest, instructions, baptism etc., worry not 😀

                  • Editor,

                    You have me wrong. I have no Orange sympathies at all.

                    I will read the link that you shared. I find myself in strong agreement with the moral posts of the blog but the theology side is over my head.

                    • William,

                      Thank you for that clarification. I’m pleased that you have no Orange sympathies. I can debate with those not of the household of the Faith (I have some in my own family) but not so much at ease with those who outright hate it.

                      Anyway, thank you for your willingness to read the article I posted. I hope you don’t mind me offering another one, on Sola Scriptura – which is one of the great divides between the Catholic Church and the Protestant communities. You can read it here

                      For general information, folks, I’ve now linked both of the articles on “Church/Bible” and Sola Scriptura, on our website, Links section.

          • Lily,

            There were Catholics among the founding members of the SNP and it has always had a large Catholic membership. The thing about the NP in SNP standing for no popery, and the pens is not true. This was part of a smear campaign aimed at trying to dissuade Catholics from supporting the SNP.

            There may very well have been members of the SNP who were anti Catholic, but the same can be said about all political parties.

  6. Personally, I have never come across an anti Catholic mentality but maybe I’m unusual. Or just plain good looking……

  7. This video connects anti-Catholic bigotry in Scotland with anti-Irish bigotry, fueled, according to this, by a “senior minister” of the Kirk, John White. Not knowing anything at all about this, I invite our bloggers’ comments:

    • RCA Victor,

      That’s an interesting clip – I hadn’t heard of John Kirk. I did know, however, that in the late 19th/early 20th century, the local Catholic clergy made the Irish incomers feel very unwelcome, urging them to go home, because they feared damaging relations with the Protestant community. The prefiguring of ecumenism, even then!

  8. In the wake of yesterday’s Finsbury Park terror attack, it’s no big surprise that a steady stream of imams, Muslim Council chiefs etc. have been before the cameras ever since, condemning this as an attack specifically aimed at Muslims (which of course, it was). An increased police presence around mosques was immediately put in place.

    Contrast this, however, with the Samurai sword attack on parishioners at Sunday Mass in Croydon some years ago (see http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/november/28/newsid_2527000/2527805.stm ). No such ‘knee-jerk reaction’ from the police on this occasion!

    We’ve also heard from various political sources that it’s ‘hate speech’ in the media, on Facebook etc. that ‘fuels this kind of behaviour’ and that ‘hate speech should not be tolerated’. Funny how nobody bats an eyelid when hate speech is directed against the Catholic Faith, but let anyone breathe a word against Islam and it’s ‘shock, horror, prejudice, intolerance, Islamophobia’ etc.

    One example that springs to mind is ‘journalist’ Polly Toynbee, who said this some time ago (’96) on the subject of frozen human embryos….

    ‘I have a modest proposal: teams of Catholic nuns should step forward and volunteer for these immaculate conceptions. “Save a Foetus for Jesus” could be the rallying cry for all those who believe that from the moment of conception, a unique and immortal soul is created’. Source:- http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/wholl-bear-an-unwanted-foetus-1316899.html

    Toynbee’s remarks here are ignorant, stupid and offensive. But if WE were to complain that we considered this to be ‘hate speech’, what sort of response do you think WE would get?? If there is going to be a ‘clampdown on hate speech’, they could start by making an example of HER, but don’t hold your breath.

    • Pat,

      Well said. That’s been my own thoughts watching the news reports of this attack at the London mosque. In only ONE report, did they point out that the man’s death may be unrelated to the attack. He was apparently already being attended by helpers, having collapsed or taken ill outside the mosque, prior to the attack. Not that there is any excuse for the attack – of course not – but it seems the media may be only too happy to attribute the man’s death to the attacker when that may not be the case. For some reason (speculate away there!) the government and the media wish to paint Islam in the best possible light, and any attack on Muslims is “an attack on us all” whereas the same is not quite true of attacks on Christians.

      Toynbee is an idiot – and that’s moi at moi’s most charitable…

    • Pat McKay,

      I wish someone had lodged a claim under “hate crime” naming Polly Toynbee. She had some nerve saying that. That was just evil – no other word for it.

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