13 May: Fatima Visionaries Canonised?

From Pope to make Fatima child visionaries saints

Two child shepherds who claimed to have had holy visions in Fatima are to be made saints, possibly during Pope Francis’s upcoming trip to the Portuguese pilgrimage site.

Francis gave the go-ahead Thursday to canonise Jacinta and Francisco Marto who, along with their cousin Lucia Santos, claimed to have witnessed apparitions of the Virgin Mary in a miracle officially recognised by the Catholic Church.

The children said Mary appeared to them first on May 13, 1917, when Jacinta was seven years old, Francisco nine and Lucia 10.

The siblings, born into a poor family, fell sick during the 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic which racked Europe after the First World War, with Francisco succumbing to the illness in 1919, and Jacinta following in 1920 aged just nine.

Both are buried at the Sanctuary of Our Lady of Fatima, which Francis will visit during his May 12-13 trip to mark the centenary of their first sight of Mary.

Francis’s approval of the miracle attributed to them — reportedly the curing of a Brazilian boy — was the final step needed before the children could be made saints.

They will be the youngest non-martyrs to be canonised in the history of the church.

After her first visit, the Virgin Mary is said to have appeared to them several times over a six-month period, always on the 13th.

This prompted thousands to gather on the spot on October 13, 1917, with several witnesses saying they had seen the sun “miraculously” dance in the sky.

Their cousin Lucia joined a convent. In 1941 she said she and the siblings had been given three secrets by Mary; the first was a vision of Hell and the second was a warning that another, more devastating war was looming — the Second World War.

The third secret she kept to herself for years, before finally being persuaded to write it down and it was delivered to the Vatican in 1957.

Finally published in 2000, it described a vision that was believed — with its depiction of the death of a man robed in white — to have been a prophecy of the 1981 assassination attempt on pope John Paul II.

The Argentine will be the fourth pope to visit the Fatima shrine, after Paul VI, John Paul II and Benedict XVI.  Source

Comment:

How did YOU vote in the poll? 

71 responses

  1. If you read the words of Sister Lucy in the book she published just before her death there is a photo of the remains of little Jacinta when she was disinterred before her beatification and her body is incorrupt. She wanted to do so much to stop souls going to hell. She regularly fasted on her own just for that purpose.

  2. JohnR,

    The photo below shows the children after they had seen the vision of Hell, hence their very serious expressions. Although it only lasted seconds, the vision of Hell made a profound impression on them, especially, it seems, Jacinta, who, as you say, fasted and prayed for souls in danger of ending up in that awful place.

    The question is, though, should the two younger seers be canonised soon, perhaps to mark the centenary in May, or should all three be canonised at the same time AND/OR should the canonisations be delayed until after the Consecration of Russia?

    I can’t make up my mind, so I am looking forward to reading what others think. Then I’ll disagree just for the heck of it! Kidding! 😀

    • I do think the canonisations should wait until after the Consecration of Russia. It seems a bit strange to canonise the people who brought the Message of Fatima to the Church, while refusing to engage with the major plank of that Message!

  3. Does anyone besides me think it’s odd that Sister Lucy has been left out of this? (Yes Editor, I voted in the poll, all three s/b canonized together). Given the ongoing [failed] effort to suppress the truth about Fatima, the Third Secret and the Consecration of Russia, I’m suspicious that the omission of Sister Lucy is part of that suppression. After all, if they raise her to the altars, it will certainly spark more questions about, and interest in, the messages she received from Our Lady – questions and interest from the Church at large.

    This way, perhaps the only people who will raise questions are we rabid, cold-hearted Fatimists and rigid neo-Pelagians: i.e. a much smaller group!

  4. RCA Victor,

    Yes, I think it’s very bad that Sr Lucia has been left out. It took only three years after her death, on February 13, 2008 for Pope Benedict XVI to announce that in her case he would waive the five-year waiting period before opening a cause for beatification [whereas in the case of Pope John Paul II, one could claim, if one were a cynic, that his cause was opened almost before his death!] But, nothing since.

    It may be that Lucia will be beatified on 13th May when (if) the two younger seers are canonised, but it doesn’t seem right – they were all present at the visions and Sr Lucia was the one chosen to be the “main messenger” so to speak, so whatever the reason, it seems odd, as you say, that she has been left out of this event, as far as we know.

    Of course, were the system of canonisation as rigorous as it used to be, it would mean that there would be a very thorough investigation into the life of Sister Lucia and her writings and so the truth would be sure to emerge about the Consecration of Russia and the third part of the Fatima Message, which, thanks to the machinations of the Vatican, has come to be known as the Third Secret.

    This observation of yours hits the nail on the head: “… if they raise her to the altars, it will certainly spark more questions about, and interest in, the messages she received from Our Lady – questions and interest from the Church at large.

    13th May looks set to be a very interesting day all round – and not just because of the Catholic Truth Conference, which, incidentally, will be the ONLY event in Scotland on that day discussing the crisis in the Church; there are plenty of “spiritual” events organised, I’m hearing, but nothing, apart from ours, on the one thing of which Our Lady came to Fatima to warn – the diabolical disorientation, the crisis, to come.

  5. I count myself as a “Fatimist”, as much perhaps for having lived 45 kms from Fatima for several years where I weekly attended the SSPX Chapel and the Masses said by the sadly-defunct FFI than for my belief in the truth of the apparitions.

    I cannot say though that I am one who definitively holds as a dogma that *only* when Russia is consecrated to the Immaculate Heart will the world have peace, etc. Why?

    1. The promises of such apparitions are always, it seems to me, contingent on us. Just as God would have spared even Gomorrah if there had been one good person there, He can ameliorate or even cancel a threatened Chastisement at His Will if enough prayed ardently enough for His Mercy.

    JPII at Fulda in 1980-odd said that the coming Chastisement could no longer be cancelled but could be lessened in its destructiveness. This statement backs me up I think.

    2. It’s bothered me for a long time that Sr. Lucia reported a great war that would break out in the second half of the 20th Century. There were very many wars in that period. I am NOT saying she got it wrong, but on the face of it there is a question mark over this point.

    Anyway, the truth about Fatima has been deliberately covered up. There is far too much evidence to say otherwise. I can only hope that those who decided to act as they have done with regard to Fatima know what they are doing, but I don’t have much or indeed aby confidence in that hope.

    • Benedict Carter,

      “2. It’s bothered me for a long time that Sr. Lucia reported a great war that would break out in the second half of the 20th Century.”

      I was so surprised at reading your above statement that I went onto the Fatima.org website to check it. The only reference to war that I could find in the quotes from Sister Lucia, is this one: “The war is going to end; but if people do not cease offending God, a worse war will break out during the reign of Pius XI.”

      Note, she was referring to the First World War going to end and the Second World War to come “if people do not cease offending God.”

      • Laura,

        I found this on Fr Gruner (RIP)’s website:

        “Some critics, including Father Edouard Dhanis, have argued that Sister Lucy’s prophecy that the “great war” would begin during the reign of Pius XI was incorrect. They make this claim because, as they say, the Second World War “began” with the German invasion of Poland on September 1, 1939 – as is widely and erroneously believed – when Pius XII, not Pius XI, was Pope. Pius XI died on February 10, 1939, and Pius XII was installed as Bishop of Rome on March 12, 1939.

        Sister Lucy, however, has maintained that World War II, in truth, began during the reign of Pius XI. “The annexation of Austria was the occasion for it,” she explained. The invasion of Austria (in March 1938), the annexation of Czechoslovakia, the formation of military alliances and the decision to invade Poland were the beginnings of the war, though war had not yet been officially declared. All of these events occurred during the pontificate of Pope Pius XI.

        Furthermore, the “night illumined by an unknown light,” which Our Lady said would signal the coming of the “great war”, occurred during the night of January 25-26, 1938. On that night a bright red light, likened to the blaze of a gigantic fire, filled the evening sky, and was seen across Europe and even in parts of North America and North Africa. It was determined to be a most extraordinary aurora borealis. Sister Lucy expressed reservations on this, but wrote in her third memoir on August 31, 1941 that no matter what cause the light could be attributed to, “God made use of this to make me understand that His justice was about to strike the guilty nations…”
        http://www.fatima.org/essentials/whatucando/prophecyourtime.asp

        • Laura,

          Ever heard of the Rakofsky Interrogation? It is confirmation of when WWII really started, as it took place on January 25, 1938, at the same time as that “bright red light.” Rakofsky was a Rothschild agent with very high Masonic connections, imprisoned during the Stalin purges. If I remember correctly, Rakofsky informed his jailers that WWII could either go against Hitler, or against Russia, depending on what was done with him! The Russians cooperated, and the direction of WWII was determined.

          At any rate, here is more info [Ed: link removed – see note below]

          Editor: I removed the link posted here, because it leads to a red page with a warning that the site is unsafe. And thereafter, my protection programme informed me that it had “treated” a virus from XXXXXX naming the website you had linked. So, hopefully, nobody else has visited it, and I know you will understand why I felt I had to delete it here.

    • Benedict Carter,

      I’ve heard this a lot, that the fulfilment of Fatima has been held up because of us, we’re not all enrolled in the Brown Scapular, not saying the daily rosary etc. The problem with that, though, is that Our Lady didn’t make any mention of that, she didn’t say that peace in the world was “contingent on us”. She said only that peace would be restored when Russia was consecrated, Russia having publicly denied God, and then spread this error across the world.

    • Benedict Carter,

      Beware of the idea that the fulfilment of the Fatima Message is “contingent on us”.

      This idea has grown up in recent times, promoted by groups like the World Apostolate of Fatima and other “false friends of Fatima” (as Christopher Ferrara so aptly dubs them.)

      Our Lady said no such thing. She said, simply, that if the Pope consecrates Russia [in the manner prescribed] then a period of peace would come to the world. End of.

      It’s no coincidence that those groups who peddle the idea that we must all “do our bit” so to speak, are groups who claim that the Consecration has been done and the Third Secret revealed.

      They then have to find a way of explaining why there’s been no period of world peace, and what better way to keep the troops on-side than to tell them it’s all their [our] fault.

      No: once the Pope obeys Our Lady, carries out the Consecration as prescribed, there will be a period of world peace, as she promised.

  6. I’ve been touring the Fatima website and it’s a really rich resource. I found a whole string of videos on “False Friends of Fatima”, so I’m posting one here.

    You can see the rest of the False Friends of Fatima videos here

    • Josephine,

      Thank you for posting that video and the link to the rest of the series. I especially liked the passage from The Ratzinger Report reiterating Pope Paul VI on the state of the Church at that time. Amazing.

    • Lily,

      I don’t know what to make of that report about Pope Francis Vs Pope Benedict. I’m not sure that it matters whether or not they have only a “pretence friendship”. Pope Benedict should not have resigned, so, my gut reaction is, what goes around, comes around

      That is to say, if they don’t get on, and Pope Benedict is being “pressurised” to put on a show, too bad. He should have stayed put and not allowed himself to be, effectively, forced out of office and then told the world that he resigned of his own free will. Sympathy? Not from me.

  7. In fact, I would vote for both: “the consecration of Russia” and the “canonisation of the visionaries”.
    However, I would first vote for “the consecration of Russia” because it is what asked the Virgin Mary with insistence and She already did promise the visionaries that they will go to Heaven…
    Therefore we already know that they are in Heaven.

    • Lionel,

      That’s a great point – we know that the seers are in Heaven because Our Lady said they would go there. WOW! I’d forgotten that! Those canonisations will be uncontroversial then.

  8. The ultimate purpose for the consecration of Russia is not the conversion of Russia or world peace. The conversion of Russia and world peace are graces promised by God to be obtained by means of that consecration, but the ultimate purpose of the consecration is to save souls from hell by establishing the devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Our Lady Herself said, “To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to My Immaculate Heart.” On June 13, 1917, the Holy Virgin said that it is Jesus, Who wishes to establish this devotion: “He wishes to establish in the world devotion to My Immaculate Heart. To whoever embraces this devotion, I promise salvation; those souls will be cherished by God, as flowers placed by Me to adorn His Throne.” It is for the salvation of souls that Heaven requests the consecration of Russia. “The salvation of souls … is always the supreme law of the Church.” (Can. 1752) Those who oppose or hinder the consecration for whatever reason set themselves in opposition to the supreme law of the Church and are therefore criminals in the sight of God.

    http://www.fatimacrusader.com/cr73/cr73pg08.asp

    I vote for the Consecration of Russia above all else.

    • Steven Calovich,

      The reason why Our Lady (and God) asked for the consecration of Russia was stated clear as being so that Russia would be converted to the Catholic religion and would stop spreading its errors. The error was atheistic Communism and since Russia was the first country to deny her God and take up atheistic Communism, she must be consecrated to God as a sign (I presume) of repentance.

      That request from Our Lady (and therefore God) doesn’t clash with the supreme law of the Church, the salvation of souls, but it underlines it. Souls which pursue atheistic Communism won’t be saved.

    • RCA Victor,

      Glad he’s caught up with us! However, I wish he wouldn’t keep referring to “Pope Bergoglio”. What’s wrong with just calling him “Pope Francis”? I really don’t get this determination to ignore his papal name. I don’t recall him referring to “Pope Ratzinger”…

      • Editor,

        I feel your pain! (though I didn’t cut out chocolate for Lent…) However, I recall an article, somewhere in the dim recent past, pointing out that it is for some reason common amongst Italians to refer to the Pope by his actual last name. Don’t ask me to explain that, I’m only 75% Italian….

  9. I too think that the Consecration of Russia first, then the canonisation of the three “seers”.
    Several Popes have failed to comply with Our Lady’s request in Consecrating Russia.

    We know Jacinta and Francisco died at a young age. I do wonder if it is a deliberate act by the Vatican not to include Sister Lucia. After all, it was she who carried out Our Lady’s request to write down the Third Secret. It was she who wrote about the apparitions at Fatima.

    Pope John XXIII silenced Sister Lucia in 1960, easy to do as she was a Carmelite nun. We saw Vatican II commence not long after.

    http://www.fatima.org/essentials/opposed/cvrup4.asp

  10. I completely agree that it is deliberate to leave Sr Lucy out of the canonisations – she’s not even beatified yet, so they’re obviously keeping her in the shadows for a reason. It will be interesting to see if she even gets a mention on 13th May. All the machinations will come to nothing, anyway, as the truth will out, despite the Vatican efforts to keep it out of public view.

  11. Editor

    I’ve come a bit late to this thread, though I think seeing it on the Feast of the Annunciation, not to mention the Anniversary of Archbishop Lefebvre’s death (March 25, 1991) is quite providential.

    The canonisations of Jacinta and Francisco Marto is timely, I believe, and not dependent upon the consecration of Russia. Those two little children are saints, no doubt about it. My only sorrow is that Sister Lucy’s canonisation must wait. Just as Our Lady told her that she must remain in the world when her cousins went to heaven, so now it seems she will have to wait a little longer before joining them in honour at the altar.

    What struck me again about the photos of Jacinta and Francisco is how sad they looked. I have read about this sadness of the children following the apparitions and how eachof them was given a special devotion that is linked with the Message and Secret of Fatima.

    Francisco became particularly devoted to the Blessed Sacrament and spoke often about the need to make reparation for the outrages committed against the Real Presence of Our Lord. It is as though he had been shown the future monstrous crimes that would be perpetrated against the August Sacrament resulting from illicit Communion in the hand and the abuse of Extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion.

    Jacinta developed a particular fear for the Pope. She often spoke of the “poor Holy Father”, following a particular vision she had about a Pope kneeling weeping with his head in his hands.

    Lucy’s mission was to promote the devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, the remedy to the sorrows that her cousins indicated would befall the Church unless and until this devotion was spread and Russia was consecrated.

    We can take from all of this that the Third Secret describes a supernatural punishment, a great apostasy from the faith both in the Church and in the world. The Post-Vatican II era seems to indicate the fulfillment of that chastisement. But how does it end, and when? Heaven alone knows the answer to that.

    • Athanasius,

      You’ve got me thinking twice about the canonisations of Jacinta and Francisco. Now that it dawns on me that we know they are in Heaven (and Lucy too) because Our Lady told them they would be going to Heaven, I suppose it is “timely” as you say, to mark the 100th anniversary of the first apparition, with their formal canonisations. I just wish Sr Lucia was included.

      I notice what you say about each of the children having a different devotion, and although you quote accurately, I think that Jacinta is more famous for her sacrifices for sinners resulting from her shock at the vision of Hell. So, although she spoke of the “poor Holy Father” I think her special devotion is more to do with sacrificing for souls in danger of Hell.

      I definitely agree with your final paragraph. Again, though “how does it end” makes me think of the Consecration of Russia. I hope it comes soon.

    • Athanasius,

      Yes, I think you’re probably right. Without the canonisations of the two younger seers, there would be nothing much happening on 13th May at Fatima of relevance, and the visit would be of little, if any, interest.

      So, I bow to your greater insight and wisdom on this one… You’ve got it right… on the button,

      Just don’t make a habit of it 😀

      • Josephine

        Yes, Jacinta was more known for her sacrifices for sinners, I should have pointed that out. I just wanted to highlight the more forgotten vision she had of a Pope weeping with his head in his hands.

        Editor,

        You may be assured that I will not make a habit of speaking wisely! I don’t know what came over me. I really need to cut down on the wine gums!

  12. I wanted to ask a question about the Rosary. I know that Francisco, the male Fatima seer, found it difficult to say the Rosary and so do I.

    I am constantly distracted, and feel that I am wasting my time. I don’t know how to concentrate on both the mysteries and the words of the prayers at the same time.

    I remember reading somewhere that Francisco had the same problem but I can’t remember how he resolved the problem. I know Our Lady said he would have to say many rosaries before getting to Heaven, and I wonder if that is the reason, that his distracted rosaries were not pleasing to God.

    Any tips to fix the problem of distractions during the rosary will be very very welcome indeed.

    • Francisco,

      I sympathise with your distractions – I can suffer the very same, although as I have become better at saying the Rosary, so too have I become better at conquering distraction.

      What provided a useful insight for me was a helpful comment from a fellow blogger who posts here, “Leprechaun”.

      He pointed out that the source of distractions is in fact the Devil himself, who – of course – does not want us to pray the Rosary nor reap its benefits (same goes for distractions during any kind of prayer).

      Think about it – when was the last time you suffered from distraction when watching some rubbish on the TV, when sitting in the pub or when somehow “wasting time”? Probably never, right? It seems very easy to keep our mind on things, when the things are of no real use to us or anyone else.

      Yet, just as soon as we attempt to put our mind to something pleasing to God and beneficial to our souls, suddenly we find ourselves beset with distractions. We are tempted to think about this and that – indeed anything other than the task at hand (the Rosary). That is assuming we first manage to conquer the temptation to skip saying it for that day!

      This recognition of the source and reason for the distraction was a real eye opener for me and has provided an extra strong motivation to say my rosary daily – even if its late and I am tired, or when I am pushed for time etc.

      Don’t beat yourself up for finding it hard to get into the way of saying the Rosary. I am in my late 30s and have only started on the Rosary in recent years (after turning to traditional Catholicism).

      It can be a difficult habit to get into – but there is no better habit to have. I used to think that I was wasting my time too. But keep at it, and things will come good. If I had told me, 5 years ago, that I would soon be someone who said the Rosary daily, I – without word of a lie – would have laughed in tour face. I would never have believed it. Yet, today, here I am, beads in hand. Its a small example of the transformative power of God’s grace.

      When I say the Rosary, the words of the prayers form the “background”, if you will, and I concentrate chiefly on the mystery at hand. So the two things are not fighting for primacy in my attention, but rather form different ‘layers’ of the prayer. It does get easier with practice, slowly but surely – and, for me personally, it has taken a lot of practice (years).

      I am at the stage now where I mostly find it pretty easy to put aside the 10-15 minutes needed for the Rosary, and indeed I enjoy saying it. I have learned to think ahead, e.g. if I will be busy later then I will say my Rosary earlier. If its a Friday night, at the end of a busy working week, then I will always ensure I say my Rosary before opening my first beer!

      But even still, I sometimes get distracted – but, as soon as I recognise that, I just re-orientate my thoughts and crack on with it. None of us are perfect and I bet even the greatest of Saints had trouble at concentrating on their Rosary at times.

      And you are right that a prayer poorly said is less pleasing to God than a prayer well said. But equally, a prayer poorly said is more pleasing that no prayer at all. Think about a football fan – even if his team gets beaten, he will still take some measure of satisfaction, if the players had at least tried hard during the game.

      We just do our best, and we find that, quite naturally, as we grow in God’s grace, we become better at our prayers.

      Don’t be disheartened, just keep plugging away – even when it feels useless – and you will be amazed at your reward. Good luck!

      • Gabriel Syme,

        What a very helpful answer. I can’t thank you enough. I’m now reinforced to keep on until I conquer those distractions. It is actually heartening to know that it is possible to overcome them, even if not completely. To think of it as getting one over on the devil helps, as well! LOL!

        I promise I will keep “plugging away”. You’ve been extremely helpful.

        • Francisco,

          I am glad you found my answer helpful. I see others have given advice too (which is likely so much better than mine!)

          Yes, it is certainly possible to overcome distraction though (as you say) we can always be susceptible to them, even if we have become good at combating them.

          Even the best golfer in the world will find the rough sometimes, or occasionally put the ball into the water, and so even the “best prayer” (if there was such a person) might suffer a distraction once in a while.

          When I first started with the rosary, I felt the same as you and had similar questions. When we are new to such things, it is easy to wonder if we are on the right track, or feel disheartened at times.

          But instead take heart and confidence from the fact that you have set out on this path in the first place and are making these efforts. This shows you are actively responding to God prodding you in the direction He wants you to go in – and that’s a good thing! 🙂

      • But Gabriel Syme, I always believed that the devil cannot read our thoughts, so how can he know when we are praying?

        • Olaf,

          I stress I am no theological expert (and so anyone more learned than I please feel free to give a better answer!).

          But I do not think whether or not the devil knows our thoughts matters here (I don’t actually know what the Church officially teaches on that, if anything – I do know that it teaches that the devil is “just a creature” and so his power is not infinite).

          I do know he is the chief source of all temptation and so he is obviously able to place suggestions / propositions in our mind. So it seems reasonable to state he would tempt us not to pray, or even initially to give less priority to prayer.

          And given we place a lot of emphasis on avoiding “occasions of sin” – that is, avoiding places, persons or circumstances which may mean we become particularly susceptible to sin, it does seem that the devils ability to successfully tempt us can indeed be directly related to “what we are doing at the time”.

          This would mean he does have some means of knowing what we are doing, if not what we are thinking.

          I think CS Lewis (an Anglican, I know) postulated that the devil doesn’t know what we are thinking, but he can make a good guess.

          Given we often ask the Saints and Angels for help, it seems that they know our thoughts. Satan is a fallen Angel, but I do not know if this means he has lost the ability to do things which he could before his fall.

          I would be interested to hear anyone else’s thought on this question.

          • Gabriel Syme,

            All well said. C.S. Lewis was right – the Devil CAN guess our thoughts, even if we do not give voice to them.

            I remember being surprised to learn that in a particular religious Order (and I think it applies, or used to apply to all Orders) the Community were never told when a new postulant was expected to enter. This was because then the Devil could get to work to tempt the would-be religious NOT to enter. So, we know that if he hears something, he can torment us, and it is, therefore, better not to say too much, RCA Victor, Margaret USA or Wurdesmythe, if you’re planning to bring a busload to the May Conference from the States; organise it, but keep it quiet! 😀

            Hope he can’t read!

            • > if you’re planning to bring a busload to the May Conference from the States; organise it, but keep it quiet!

              No comment. Nothing to see here. Just move along. Get back to work.

    • Perhaps a little booklet with rosary meditations in might help? I used to use such a booklet – there are some very brief meditations here:- http://fatima.org/crusader/cr52/cr52pg69.asp Sadly, quite a lot of modern rosary booklets contain the new ‘luminous’ mysteries, but Fatima Network http://www.fatima.org do a good little traditional rosary booklet, and also they do a set of three larger booklets on the Joyful, Sorrowful and Glorious mysteries, which have longer meditations (also suitable for the First Saturday devotion – and it’s First Saturday this coming weekend!). I would try not to concentrate on the words of the rosary prayers too much, if at all. If you know the prayers well, they should come automatically, as it were, so your mind is left free for the meditation. Also, don’t worry about distractions. If you find your mind has pulled away, just gently bring it back to the mystery and continue. I think that preparation is also a help. Take the phone off the hook and remove all distractions, light a candle in front of a statue of Our Lord or Our Lady and recollect yourself before God. The main thing is not to give up. Perseverance is the most important thing – and remember, we don’t always receive consolation in prayer. Oftentimes it is arid and full of distractions, particularly if you have things weighing on your mind – but many saints have said that this is when prayer is most efficacious.

      • Westminster Fly,

        Thank you for your help – I visited the Fatima link you gave and actually found an online rosary there which I think looks very helpful
        http://www.fatima.org/essentials/requests/rosary.html

        I am glad you mentioned the prayers coming automatically and being a sort of backdrop – that’s why I felt guilty, as if I should be concentrating on each word so that is a big big help. thanks again.

      • RCA Victor,

        Thanks for going to the trouble of find me a link to a book. I am very grateful.

        I can’t thank all the bloggers here enough who answered my call for help. I am resolved to keep at it until I can pray the rosary with more devotion that I do at the moment. Thanks everyone.

        • Francisco,

          I would add only that I find it helpful to sometimes switch from saying a decade in English to another decade in Latin. It doesn’t take long to learn the Latin Our Father and Hail Mary and the Gloria is a dawdle, so to speak!

          Pater Noster – Our Father

          Páter nóster, qui es in cáelis, sanctificétur nómen túum. Advéniat régnum túum. Fíat volúntas túa, sícut in cáelo et in térra.

          Pánem nóstrum quotidiánum da nóbis hódie, et dimítte nóbis débita nóstra, sícut et nos dimíttimus debitóribus nóstris. Et ne nos indúcas in tentatiónem: sed líbera nos a málo. Amen.

          (Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

          Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen.)

          Ave Maria – Hail Mary

          Áve María, grátia pléna, Dóminus técum; benedícta tu in muliéribus, et benedíctus frúctus véntris túi, Jésus.
          Sáncta María, Máter Déi, óra pro nóbis peccatóribus, nunc et in hóra mórtis nóstræ. Amen.

          (Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
          Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now, and in the hour of our death. Amen.)

          Gloria – Glory be

          Glória Pátri, et Fílio, et Spirítui Sáncto. Sícut érat in princípio et nunc et sémper et in sáecula sæculórum. Amen.

          (Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now, and will be forever. Amen.)

  13. Editor, interesting that you should mention Latin i.e. a different language. I’ve long said the Rosary in 4 different languages (different mysteries) and I find it really does help me to focus.

    I’m not just goods looks, you know……..

      • RCA Victor,

        That’s a great idea. I could then have an excuse, cast iron, for saying I haven’t the foggiest what Crofterlady is on about… whereas, it sounds cheeky when she’s posting in (her version of) English… 😀

        Kidding, Crofterlady. Kidding!

  14. I’m the furthest thing in the world from a Fatima expert, so I would be very grateful for our bloggers’ response to this article that appeared yesterday on the Tradition in Action website: http://traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/g32ht_Analyst.htm

    In sum, the article proposes (but doesn’t claim) that what is presented is possibly the Third Secret, and confirms it is written in Sr. Lucy’s handwriting, no less. However, I’m suspicious….esp. since the real Third Secret opens with “In Portugal, the dogma of the Faith will be preserved etc.” does it not?

    • RVA Victor,

      I’m no expert either (on anything!) but I think I’ve mentioned before that I’m a bit hesitant about the TIA site. I have a feeling you reassured me recently, so I will take a look at the link later. Right now, I have things to do, people to avoid, if you get my drift!

      • Editor,

        RCA Victor’s TIA link was instrumental in my finding the multi-part series on the Knock apparition. I placed a link in the General Discussion. I think the Knock apparition is a strong refutation of the Sedevacantist position: Also the presence of St. Joseph, Protector of the Church, in the Knock apparition sends the message: “No matter how grave the crisis may be, I will continue to protect the Church and lead her to a safe port as I did with the Holy Family. You, the faithful, must have recourse to me and my Most Holy Spouse, the Virgin Mary, in this crisis.”

      • Editor,

        I think your wariness about that site is due to an old collective blog opinion that it was associated with the TFP. However, once you find my old reference to that, you will discover that Senor Guimaraes was actually kicked out of the TFP back in the 1990s because of his 11-volume unmasking of Vatican II – a set which, though I am only in the middle of Vol. II, is quite devastating to the “progressives.” Not to mention their Conciliar allies, the Popes.

        That said, however, their “Third Secret” article strikes me as a bit strange, even if the document does appear to be in Sr. Lucy’s handwriting. But I know one sure-fire way to verify or debunk its veracity: just send it over to Cardinal Ratzinger! He’s read the real thing….and I daresay he has nothing better to do except to watch Francis blow up his “Benedictine Respite.”

    • RCA Victor,

      I started to read the article by Robert de Mattei and it is very good indeed. I stopped here:

      The apparitions of Our Lady at Fatima, between May 13th and October 13th 1917, are an objective historical fact, not a subjective religious experience of Our Lady appearing to the three little shepherds.

      It is wonderful to read that, so I am looking forward to picking up the rest of the article from that marvellous point, asap.

      N O T I C E . . .

      I’m planning to post a new thread later tonight so may not manage to catch up with all the links posted here until tomorrow.

  15. RCA Victor, Ave, Bonjour, Dia mhait leat, Hello………

    Editor MY version of English? That’s a bit rich coming from a Glaswegian, hen!

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