Crackers in Kraków – World Youth Day

From the Fatima Center website…

By the time you read this column, World Youth Day 2016 will have commenced in Kraków. Another WYD, another massive waste of time and resources by a supposedly ecologically sensitive pontiff, who will expend tens of millions of dollars of Peter’s Pence on the huge “carbon footprint” of this useless, jet-set junket. The cheering mob will have its fun, including campouts of both sexes together and blaring rock music.  There will, of course, be the “papal Mass” replete with “sacred music” that will include a pop score (with electric guitar and drum set) and preening performers, hamming it up in front of the cameras with their out-of-control vibratos.  (See, for example, John Vennari’s report on WYD 2013.) 

wydkrakow

And no WYD would be complete without frenzied idolization of the person of the Pope — the ultimate celebrity. And Francis will soak it all up just the way his predecessor, John Paul II, did.  Indeed, John Paul was the very inventor of “the Catholic Woodstock.”  Here I am reminded of this description of John Paul II’s reaction to the crowd at World Youth Day 2000, which I cited some thirteen years ago in The Great Façade (p. 289):

As Pope John Paul II looked out at the vast throng of joyful youth, hearing their shouts of “Viva il Papa” and “Giovanni Paulo” and “JP II, we love you!” ringing in the air — everywhere they gathered with the Holy Father — no wonder he wiped tears from his eyes, swayed with the young as they sang, waved his arms in the air, and let a glorious smile break through, again and again. Here he saw, before his very eyes, the fulfillment of the words of Vatican II to the young, in its blossoming and growth [since the first World Youth Day, over 15 years ago].

What I wrote then applies with equal force today: “An ephemeral outpouring of mass sentiment from a boisterous crowd is ‘the fulfillment of the words of Vatican II.’  The crowd sways.  The Pope sways with them.  All is well. The phenomenon of feelings is the triumph of Vatican II. All empirical evidence of the actual condition of the Church is ignored in favor of a phenomenal event.”

The phrase “bread and circuses” — Panem et Circenses— originated with the poet Juvenal, writing his satires around 100 A.D., when the Roman Empire, seemingly at its height, was already rotting from within: “the People have abdicated our duties; for the People who once upon a time handed out military command, high civil office, legions — everything, now restrains itself and anxiously hopes for just two things:bread and circuses.”  WYD and other mass papal events are the bread and circuses of the collapsing Novus Ordo Empire — distractions that hide the underlying reality of decay.

The “spirit of Vatican II” supposedly manifested at the World Youth Days is actually a delusion of grandeur preceding a great fall.   It is a delusion in the form of what the imaginary “renewal” of the Church really involves: the triumph of the love of novelty over the zealous guarding of Tradition, of emotionalism over right reason, of mere enthusiasm over sober piety, of boundless tolerance over the divine intolerance of sin and error, of the profane over the sacred in worship, and now, with Francis, of false “mercy” over the truth that makes us free.

Mourn indeed over what the Church’s deluded leaders have done to her. But rejoice as well at the certainty of her ultimate deliverance from their hands.  Take consolation in the immortal words of Saint Athanasius at a time (during the Arian heresy of the 4th century) when almost the whole Church, from the Pope on down, was similarly afflicted by temporary insanity:

May God console you! … What saddens you … is the fact that others have occupied the churches by violence, while during this time you are on the outside. It is a fact that they have the premises – but you have the Apostolic Faith….

You are the ones who are happy; you who remain within the Church by your Faith, who hold firmly to the foundations of the Faith which has come down to you from Apostolic Tradition. And if an execrable jealousy has tried to shake it on a number of occasions, it has not succeeded. They are the ones who have broken away from it in the present crisis. No one, ever, will prevail against your Faith, beloved Brothers. And we believe that God will give us our churches back some day.

The triumph of Our Lady’s Immaculate Heart will mean the fall of the Novus Ordo Empire of worthless novelty.  The signs of its final collapse are already obvious.  Its end cannot be long in coming, even if many of us may not live to see it.  Source

Comment

Personally, I think these World Youth Days are always totally crackers, because the young people who’ve been interviewed at past events have made clear that they’re not at all accepting of the teaching of the Church on the same moral issues that the rest of the world rejects. I doubt if Polish youth are much different from their peers across the globe.  Thus, in my humble opinion, there doesn’t seem to be any point in having these days for youth, especially since the youngsters attending are not being taken forward in the Faith.  On the contrary, they’ve been encouraged to question and challenge Christ’s Church by the very person – Pope Francis – who should be warning them of the spiritual danger of rejecting divinely revealed truths on religion and morals. It’s been crackers all over the world, but now it’s crackers in Kraków. I’m bracing myself for more papal “advice” to the young in the next few days. What about you?  

49 responses

  1. I don’t know what to make of this from the Pope in Poland – I’ve copied this from Zenit report:-

    “His first night in Krakow during his first visit to Poland and 15th Apostolic Journey abroad, Pope Francis has told young people from the window of where he is staying at the archbishop’s residence, that he had some bad news to share.

    According to Vatican Radio, the Pope called for silence as he spoke about a 22-year-old WYD volunteer who died on July 2 from cancer. The young man was diagnosed in November of last year.

    This boy, the Holy Father said, had worked very hard for this World Youth Day and had even booked to travel with him on a tram ride during this festival.

    The Holy Father noted the faith of this young man and told the youth below the volunteer was looking down on them. The Pontiff then asked the young people to pray in their hearts, reiterating that the young man was with them and that this was a grace.

    During his stay in Krakow, the Holy Father will be residing at the Archbishop’s residence in the heart of the city. This was the home of the Cardinal Archbishop of Krakow, Karol Wojtyla before his elevation to the See of Peter.

    From the residence’s window, Pope John Paul II greeted his fellow countrymen on his many papal visits over the course of his pontificate and on Wednesday evening Pope Francis continued that tradition speaking to crowds of young people below.

    The Holy Father also noted that he could see that the young people gathered are here with great joy in their hearts.

    Pope Francis concluded, joking that the young pilgrims should do what young people do, make noise during these nights, and asking them to pray for him.”

    I suggest we all offer a prayer for the soul of the young man who died, RIP.

    • Well, it is very sad that the Pope did not clearly ask for prayers for the young deceased man’s soul – talking about him “looking down” on them suggests he’s already in heaven, which does him no favours if he’s in Purgatory.

      May he rest in peace.

      • MM

        Well said. This belief that everyone goes straight to Heaven (thanks to the great “mercy” of God) is utterly uncharitable.

    • Josephine,

      It’s depressing to see the Pope making the same assumption as everyone else these days, that young people are almost without exception, badly behaved at some level, urging the pilgrims to “do what young people do, make noise during these nights…”

      Words fail.

    • RCA Victor,

      That’s very interesting – the one thing the UN takes from the Catholic Church is the fun-inspired youth day events. Priceless.

  2. I think the whole thing is crackers too. It’s all about dancing to sentimental tripe that is passed as hymns, hugging each other and looking for a boyfriend or girlfriend. Remember World Youth Day 2000 when hundreds of condoms were found, alongside consecrated hosts? Disgusting.

    Bishop Keenan has been posting lots about this current World Youth Day. He called one of the events, “C in the Park” – the C standing for catechism. I told him that if this was supposed to be a joke then the real joke was the lack of catechisis in schools and parishes across Scotland.

    I wouldn’t trust Pope Francis with my budgie never mind my children, so I’m not a fan of these silly events.

  3. The more I read about this Pope the more I wonder at his game. Is he mad? Is he mentally unhinged? Or is he simply a Jesuit and a wolf in sheep’s clothing?

    Whatever, he sure is leading a lot of people astray including the young. WYD is an abomination straight out of the wiles of Satan. A few years ago we allowed some of our young people to attend and they returned with horrific stories of sacrilege, blasphemy, impurity and, more than anything else, sheer ignorance of spiritual things among the young attendees. They would never attend again.

  4. So far, I agree with everyone – now. that makes a change!

    Seriously, it’s incredible that these events continue to be planned given the scandals associated with them, as touched upon in the comments from Petrus and Olaf.

  5. Despite all of this, we must never forget of the hope in tradition, in the SSPX and among the young hungering for the truth of tradition.

    One day, we WILL be the norm, not the exception.

    • DOTF,

      Very true, and I take solace in knowing that my two Great-Nephews (10 and 13 respectively) are enjoying a week at a traditional camp in Wales and will, in a couple of weeks, enjoy another one in the south of England.

      Thank you for reminding us of those young people from families where Catholic Tradition is being lived and taught.

  6. I remember the sacrilegious ‘TYME’ (The Youth Mass Experience) ‘rave’ Masses held in the ’90’s in the Westminster Diocese, which ran for a while then died a death. They were supposedly meant to attract non-churchgoing youngsters, but we subsequently learned that those who attended had merely been diverted from where they usually attended Mass, so it seemed the sole purpose of those Masses was to expose them to even more novelty and liturgical abuse than they might otherwise have witnessed in their own (novus ordo) parishes. It seems that WYD is doing the same type of thing. Pandering to ‘yoof culture’ and dragging everything that is sacred and holy down to the lowest common denominator is not going to bring young people back into our churches.

    • WF,

      You’ve hit a huge nail on the head with this:

      [“The rave Masses…] were supposedly meant to attract non-churchgoing youngsters, but we subsequently learned that those who attended had merely been diverted from where they usually attended Mass.”

      That is precisely what goes on at these events. They’re billed as being aimed at the “un-churched” (a favourite term with the Modernists at one time, not heard it for a bit, mind you) when, in fact, the majority, if not the only, people who turn up are people who are already church-goers.

      Crackers, Crackers, Crackers… I mean, just WHO do they think they are fooling?

  7. WYD seems to be a key element of reducing the Church to an emotionalized personality cult, a variation of the charismatics, where the Pope is adored by his millions of screaming fans like a rock star, a certain delusional euphoria is created, and everyone comes away from this event foolishly thinking that they are much holier for having attended.

    It also fits in quite nicely with the error of papal impeccability, the “Santo Subito” mentality, etc.

    Who knows, maybe the next WYD will feature the Pope emerging from below the stage with billowing clouds of smoke, a brilliantly flashing environmental light show, and a blaring rock music song like Led Zeppelin’s “Stairway to Heaven”!

    Now that would be some serious “smell of the sheep”!

    • Gerontius,

      That is truly and utterly shocking. Blatant sexual corruption of the young by a Pope, to put it in a nutshell.

      The following paragraph jumped out at me:

      “…We know a good grandfather who, armed with his own copy [of Truth & Meaning of Human Sexuality], was banned from even entering a meeting for priests, parents and teachers at a Catholic school on Merseyside. We’ve also heard that a priest-director of education had suggested that being a Roman document, it did not apply in the English situation. And this was years before Jorge Bergoglio and Reinhard Marx were on the scene with their decentralization theories…

      That sentence – specifically, the words which I’ve put in bold – jumped out at me because I was told exactly the same thing when I held the post of Head of RE in a (so-called) Catholic school in the south of England. When I mentioned a document (can’t remember which one) the Head told me that I wouldn’t last long in (that diocese) if I went about quoting Vatican documents, because the Church there was essentially independent. I paraphrase the last few words but that was the sense of it. They followed “home not Rome” – and the Bishop of that diocese at the time was an out and out Protestant. Almost typed “Modernist” there – getting careless!

  8. Below, video and article taken from the Remnant website:

    From World Youth Day, Libera Nos Domine

    Groovy, man! (NOTE: If you see nothing amiss in this video–from a Catholic point of view–then there’s really no point to reading on. You’re part of a new religion now, and what I have to say is based on the teachings of the old one… and will thus be Greek to you.)

    Nuns rockin’ out. Priests rockin’ out. Millions of kids—hormones a racin’—rockin’ out. Even the sisters of St. Faustina bustin’ dance moves in full habit. Behold World Youth Day (WYD) — the Neo-Catholic Woodstock, where everything is awesome!

    So you planning to pack the kids off to Krakow this summer? You trust them to do the right thing, right?

    Therese Ickinger once noted that a teenager who wants to break her curfew will sometimes resort to: “Mom, what’s the matter? Don’t you trust me?” A Catholic mother, Mrs. Ickinger explained, will always respond as follows: “No, I don’t trust you, and you shouldn’t trust yourself.”

    After every WYD extravaganza we hear all about the “amazing” fact that never before in history had there been an event in which millions teenagers came together for a Catholic event. True, and why is that? 1) Because it’s not Catholic, and 2) because in the old days Catholic parents wouldn’t have stood for it! Knowing well how the Devil works, they would never have recklessly “trusted” their teenagers to jump into what amounts to the largest “approved” occasion of sin in the history of Christianity.

    WYD has since its inception been a hodgepodge of emotionalism, sleep deprivation, youthful exuberance, sexual energy, fuzzy theology, United Nations and sustainable development propaganda, and pulsating rock ‘n’ roll. Evangelizing in such a volatile environment may sound like a good idea to a teenager but it should give pause to adults who’ve been around the block once or twice.

    I’d no sooner permit my sons and daughters to “evangelize” at WYD than I’d let them evangelize a Miley Cyrus fest. But of course teenagers will disagree, vehemently in fact. Why, that Michael Matt is a paranoid church lady who. just. doesn’t. GET IT! “We can feel the energy of the Lord at WYD. It’s aMAAAAAAZING!”

    Yes, well we were all teenagers once, and when a young person insists he wants to go to World Youth Day to “evangelize” and “witness” in the name of Jesus, we should praise him for his fervor and then tell him to stay home, pray his rosary, and avoid near occasions of sin.

    I don’t doubt the good intentions of kids who want to go to WYD, but when considering this description of opening night at WYD 2005, for example, as reported on the official WYD web site, does this sound like a Catholic, Christian and wholesome environment to you?

    “Let´s get it started”. It is with this song that the group Höhner gave the starting shot for the festival in LTU Arena in Düsseldorf after the opening service Tuesday evening… A mix of hot rhythms and a mood of Rhineland carnival shook the Arena to its foundations, leaving the visitors who had come from all over the world in a frenzy… Cardinal Joachim Meisner extended greetings to the applauding and whistle-blowing crowd in Düsseldorf on behalf of their “fellow species in Cologne”, an allusion to the inaugural event taking place there as well. Since the band hails from Cologne, the musicians struck up the carnival sensation “Viva Colonia” while “Da simmer dabei” blasted from all corners and even the Cardinal seemed to sing along.

    Three carnival clubs were welcomed with a rapturous applause… But also the songs of the band “Eierplätzchen” in Spanish, the Ska and Reggae mix of the group Trovaci and the drummer group Tentekko who hit at their instruments as if they were possessed caught on well with the crowd. (Emphasis mine)

    And this is WYD of ten years ago: The deafening noise of drums and rock guitars fills the night air while Taize music accompanies “reconciliation” sessions by day; papal Masses “warm up” for world famous pop stars (England’s legendary rocker Cliff Richard closed WYD 2005 after the Pope’s Mass); Protestant rockers RESCATE were prime time and center stage, even after publicly ridiculing the theology of the papacy to the press; the biggest headliner of the event was, of course, the Pope himself, but only after he visited a synagogue and subjected himself to a lecture from a rabbi about his (the Pope’s) “responsibility” for the Church’s “sins of the past”.

    And this is our great “hope of the future”? Altar girls, jugglers, rock stars and liturgical dancers.

    I wrote about the 2005 WYD fiasco:

    And this is tame by comparison with the Pope’s arrival in Cologne, when a throng of thousands shouted at Peter’s successor as though he were a WWE wrestling star. Wearing the beatnik garb of the MTV generation, they screamed and waved their silly banners and grimaced at TV cameras—all while Christ’s Vicar attempted in vain to speak over the din. When the Pope showed signs of becoming annoyed, the NFL-style “fans” were admonished to shut up! But they carried on, trying desperately to draw attention to themselves. It was embarrassing! Imagine the disciples of Christ shouting at Him while He was trying to deliver the Sermon on the Mount. Imagine Christ at WYD! It’s unthinkable!

    But this is the new Church of a new world, where young people who have nothing to say— because their Catholic schools have taught next to nothing since Vatican II—are nonetheless encouraged to shout every kind of inane slogan at priests, princes, kings, and even God Himself. Meanwhile, Peter is evaluated, not so much by his defense of doctrine, but by the extent to which he can draw applause from a million clueless teenagers.

    And now they’re at it again, only with Pope Francis at the helm. Imagine that!

    God help us. Please, friends, let us observe a friendly boycott of WYD. It’s just the right thing to do.

    Not convinced? Perhaps this classic video put together by my friend John Vennari—and as apropos today as it was in 2008—will help good folks to see the light:


    Let’s go to World Youth Day? Yeah, RIGHT!

    Source – The Remnant Newspaper

    • Gerontius,

      “God Prefers Us to be Sinful and Weak so he can show us his mercy.” Straight out of the mouth of Martin Luther. Must be part of Francis’ Luther build-up for 2017 – perhaps to be called “The Year of Sinning Boldly.”

  9. Latest gem from the Pope; he urges the youth to be proactive, and not become “couch potatoes”. Yes, of course, that's the greatest danger they face. They must dream of a world where no-one hates, and they work to stay fit and healthy.

    An utter fiasco is the kindest thing I can think of to call this abomination.

  10. It’s hard to believe that THE POPE is actually saying these un-Catholic things. On the BBC news tonight they compared WYD to a Catholic (or religious) Glastonbury! It all just beggars belief!

  11. World Youth Day? Once upon a time I would have said, ‘What’s wrong with that?’ Now I have grave reservations, and not just in the light of what Pope Francis said to the youth gathered in Kraków for the WYD Vigil. (Incidentally, a Jesuit of the old school once ticked me off, saying that the real question is not ‘What’s wrong?’ with something, but ‘What’s right?’ with it. Wise words indeed.)

    The Pope’s shocking homily was, at best, sociological humanism with a pinch of Christianity thrown at the end just to mask the bitter flavour of a doctrine whereby there is no meaningful distinction between belief and un-belief, between the Church and the World. For Francis, the solution to all our problems is human fraternity, and if you think you have heard this somewhere before you have! It is the doctrine which stands at the base of the French Revolution, of communism, socialism, and of every attempt to accommodate the Church to the world by concentrating on works to the detriment of faith. This old fraud is without a shadow of a doubt the Successor of Peter least representative of the Catholic tradition in many centuries. I would much prefer the Chair of Peter to be occupied by a Renaissance serial philanderer who was sound in doctrine than by one who is certainly chaste but equally certainly unorthodox.

    WYD? WYD = T in the Park for modernists. Just another facet of a Church which desires above all to be pleasing to the world and in the process betrays her Lord. Nihil novum sub sole.

    • Prognosticum,

      …(Incidentally, a Jesuit of the old school once ticked me off, saying that the real question is not ‘What’s wrong?’ with something, but ‘What’s right?’ with it. Wise words indeed.)

      Well, there may be occasions when those are wise words, but in the current crisis in the Church, I find them irksome.

      I’ve lost count of the number of letters and emails I’ve received over the years saying that we ought to “balance” what we are reporting by telling about the good things as well – the “don’t be negative” mentality. I found it in my professional working life as well, listening to people urging us to be “positive” as if (as I got tired of pointing out) identifying a problem(s) and seeking to find a solution, is “negative”. Just imagine a patient chiding a doctor during a worrying diagnosis, and telling him to stop being negative, and try to be positive, when the only intelligent thing to do is to ask him to prescribe a cure.

      In replying to our critics who accuse us of negativity and ignoring all the (allegedly) good things happening in the parishes, for example, I recommend the Scottish Catholic Observer or any other supposedly Catholic newspaper because you can read there, all the reports in the world about the latest coffee morning for SCIAF or the latest Women’s Guild outing and – more to the point – you’d find no hint whatsoever that the Church is in crisis. Positivity all the way.

      The same is as true today as it was in 1999 when we launched our newsletter and received our first accusation of negativity. Nothing new under the sun, right enough!

      I do agree with your assessment of WYD. Completely. “humanism with a pinch of Christianity thrown in” just about sums it up. Well said.

      • It seems to me that from the outset the stated aim of Catholic Truth was to highlight what at that time could still be called the ‘crisis’ in the Church in Scotland. As such, it cannot be held to the standard that one would expect of, say, the BBC which must report news, be it good or bad.

  12. We are talking at cross purposes.

    The point I was making is that with regard to our actions it is more prudent to ask what is right about them before asking what is wrong.

  13. I agree, of course, that WYD is garbage but it is even more of a shame when you consider that (if done right) it could actually be a worthwhile / useful initiative.

    If the event brought together faithful young Catholics, in an atmosphere of prayer and learning, then it would be worthwhile. The encounters with people from elsewhere in the world would be a great lesson regarding the universality of the Church and the associated cultural exchange would be stimulating and interesting for the participants.

    Of course, as it stands, the event is just a toe-curling ‘party time’ affair which is more like a Protestant summer camp than anything to do with Catholicism. Like Catholic Schools of the modern day, it is a missed opportunity, one executed so bad that it does actual harm to people’s perception of the Church.

    Bizarrely, the Juventutem organisation participates in this and so there is a form of miniscule traditional representation among all the disco dancing etc. Bishop Schneider is providing catechesis for this contingent, but for young people to flit between this environment and the “happy clappy” nature of the main event must be very confusing and disorientating for them.

    There seems to be a proud tradition of Bishops talking absolute rubbish at the event (but then, so many of them do that 24/7, so its hardly new). Here Fr Z reports on one of Francis’ favourites, Bishop Nunzio Galantino, who has decided to re-write the story of Sodom at WYD. According to Galatino, God didn’t destroy the city after all and it “was saved”.

    http://wdtprs.com/blog/2016/07/at-wyd-a-bishop-rewrites-the-biblical-story-of-sodom/

    • Bishop Galantino’s knowledge of Sacred Scripture is about equal to that of the current Holy Father.

      Was it not Pope Francis who in the aftermath of the recent Synod repeatedly described those unwilling to give Communion to the divorced and remarried as Pharisees, when in actual fact in the Gospel the Pharisees are the lax party on this point. It is Jesus who upholds God’s commandment against the Pharisees’s acceptance of divoorce. Cf Mark 10:1-12.

  14. Just a note – there are a significant proportion of young Polish Catholics who support the Church’s traditional teaching on abortion, contraception, marriage, etc., even though they have had the misfortune of being part of the New Church. Just the other day when the monstrosity called WYD was going on, I was listening to a sermon on a National Novus Ordo Catholic radio station where the priest reiterated in detail the Church’s pre-V2 condemnations of liberalism.

    Even though the Catholic Faith is being slowly strangled here, Communion is still received invariably on the tongue, altar rails and kneeling is still common, altar girls simply do not exist, and dissent in the clergy from traditional Catholic moral and theological positions, including that of contraception, is still low.

    The Faith in Poland is being corrupted by modernism on the one side and charismatic spiritism on the other, but this is not yet a country that needs to be re-evangelised, as the Faith that is taught and preached is to a significant extent tradition-based and orthodox, and even manifestations of modernism tend to be of the conservative sort. There is much of value that could still be salvaged, but I fear that, after the Providential isolation of the Church under Communism, the Pope may have finally inaugurated the Sixties in Poland.

  15. This is unbelievable – and from a Pope!!!!!

    There are parishes with parish secretaries who seem to be ‘disciples of Satan’, Pope Francis said in a private meeting with Polish bishops during his visit to Poland for World Youth Day.

    http://cathnews.com/cathnews/26268-pope-parish-secretaries-seem-to-be-like-disciples-of-satan

    Douay-Rheims Bible
    Blessed are ye when they shall revile you, and persecute you, and speak all that is evil against you, untruly, for my sake:

    • Gerontius, RE: parish secretaries being “disciples of Satan”:

      To which the obvious reply is “It takes one to know one!”

      • RCA Victor,

        I don’t know if this has been posted before, but it’s current, relevant and very interesting.

        No doubt you are probably aware of this prophecy of Archbishop Sheen – but do you happen to know of any other of his cogent gems from your side of the pond?

        PROPHECY OF ARCHBISHOP FULTON SHEEN (published 1948)
        Did Archbishop Fulton Sheen prophesy about the condition of (many parts of) our Church today?

        EXTRACT:
        “[Satan] will set up a counterchurch which will be the ape of the [Catholic] Church … It will have all the notes and characteristics of the Church, but in reverse and emptied of its divine content.”

        We are living in the days of the Apocalypse, the last days of our era. The two great forces – the Mystical Body of Christ and the Mystical Body of the anti-Christ – are beginning to draw battle lines for the catastrophic contest.

        The False prophet will have a religion without a cross. A religion without a world to come. A religion to destroy religions. There will be a counterfeit Church.

        Christ’s Church the Catholic Church will be one; and the false Prophet will create the other.
        END OF EXTRACT

        https://www.romancatholicman.com/things-accelerate-toward-the-end-prophecy-of-archbishop-fulton-sheen/

        • Gerontius,

          I think I have indeed come across that prophecy somewhere in my dim past, but thanks for refreshing my memory!

          However, a troubling question: I don’t recall that Abp. Sheen ever objected to, or refused to say, the Novus Ordo. Do you know if that was the case? Surely he would have recognized the main instrument by which this prophecy would come to pass…

          • RCA Victor,

            I don’t recall that Abp. Sheen ever objected to, or refused to say, the Novus Ordo. Do you know if that was the case?

            Sorry RCA, I know very little about Archbishop Sheen, and similarly, Ive often wondered what St. Padre Pio thought of the Novus Ordo, if he ever objected to, or refused to say, the Novus Ordo Mass. So far I haven’t been able to find anything.

            There is some alledged information attributed to Padre Pio telling Don Luigi Villa, that freemasonry had entered (I paraphrase here) the shoes of the Papacy, Paul VI being Pope at the time.

            Although if I remember correctly, Editor gave me smack-handy-wristy for believing to readily, everything attributed to St.Pio – which, since the information was, and still is, in the public domain, I thought it was legit.

            Anyway, this is the URL if you are interested.
            http://padrepioandchiesaviva.com/Padre_Pio___Fr.html

            • Geronitus,

              Padre Pio never said the new mass, as he died (1968) before it was officially promulgated (1969).

              However, it is interesting that he asked to be excused from even taking part in the experimental rites of mass in the lead up to the official promulgation of the novus ordo, saying he wanted to continue saying the mass of St Pius V.

              He asked to be excused, without even seeing the experimental texts. He also described the time of the 2nd Vatican Council as “a time of darkness”.

              Here is the information I have and the source:

              Padre Pio and the Novus Ordo Missae

              He was a model of respect and submission towards his religious and ecclesiastical superiors, especially during the time when he was persecuted. Nonetheless, he could not remain silent over a deviation that was baneful to the Church. Even before the end of the Council, in February 1965, someone announced to him that soon he would have to celebrate the Mass according to a new rite, ad experimentum, in the vernacular, which had been devised by a conciliar liturgical commission in order to respond to the aspirations of modern man. Immediately, even before seeing the text, he wrote to Paul VI to ask him to be dispensed from the liturgical experiment, and to be able to continue to celebrate the Mass of St. Pius V. When Cardinal Bacci came to see him in order to bring the authorization, Padre Pio let a complaint escape in the presence of the pope’s messenger: “For pity sake, end the Council quickly.”

              The same year, during the conciliar euphoria that was promising a new springtime to the Church, he confided to one of his spiritual sons: “In this time of darkness, let us pray. Let us do penance for the elect”; and especially for the one who has to be their shepherd here below: All his life, he immolated himself for the reigning pope, whose photograph was among the rare images that decorated his cell.

              http://sspx.org/en/node/2830

              • Gabriel,
                Many thanks indeed for this very interesting post. This is new information for me regarding Padre Pio, which I found both edifying and indeed gratifying.

                Do you know if the Novus Ordo Missae was actually promulgated? I ‘m sure I read somewhere recently, that there was some doubt that it had been specifically promulgated.

            • Gerontius,

              I can see that my “smack-handy-wristy” really did the trick. One word from me, and everyone does exactly what they like around here.

            • Gerontius,

              I was about to post the SSPX article on Padre Pio, but I see Gabriel Syme beat me to it! As for whether Paul VI was a Freemason, one of our priests seems to think so, but I’ve never seen any proof of that. I believe Abp. Lefebvre was asked that same question, and he replied something like, “It doesn’t matter – he thinks like one!”

              • RCA Victor,

                “It doesn’t matter – he thinks like one!”

                Arf, Arf, how very apt – especially since he had Bugnini and his protestant theologians produce the Novus Ordo Missae.

  16. Gerontius,

    There is a rather nasty article on Abp. Sheen on the “traditioninaction” website which quotes heavily from his autobiography (accuracy of quotes unknown) to demonstrate that he was a progressive and a swooning fan of VII. However, there is also an SSPX article on him, and 2 of the last 3 paragraphs of it refer to “certain enigmas.” See for yourself: http://www.sspxasia.com/Documents/Catholic_Sermons/Fulton-Sheen.htm

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