90 responses

  1. The Pope is just incredible. His prayer intention is that sincere dialogue among people of different faiths will lead to peace and justice. He doesn’t even mention Christ and there is nothing to suggest that he wants these many people of different religions to come to faith in Christ.

    I’m not sure if I’m crossing a line here, but surely this is either heresy or blasphemy?

    About the headline – I wouldn’t be at all surprised if we have a Year of Indifferentism next!

  2. I didn’t think there were any new depths that this pontiff could plumb, but surprise doesn’t cut this one. I am totally horrified, and sat for five minutes after seeing this video literally unable to think straight or to move. When I came to I found the computer had ‘frozen’ as well with this Judas’s face fixed in its sickening false piety staring out at me. I feel totally helpless in the face of this public abandonment of the faith by Pope Francis, and am sorely tempted to think that God, one hopes only temporarily, has abandoned His Church. What is to be done?

    • Christina & Michaela,

      heresy,blasphemy & a sin against the first commandment. Are Catholics expected to include this intention in the prayers at the beginning of the Rosary? (prayers for the Popes intentions). Pope Francis does not surprise me any more, but he needs our prayers so that he will convert to the one true faith and believe & behave as the Vicar of Christ should.

      • Spiritus

        No one said that prayers should not be offered for Pope Francis, which is a duty incumbent upon all Catholics. But prayers of no prayers, this Pope is saying some highly questionable things, to say the least. Of course faithful Catholics are going to highlight and lament his deviations from Magisterial teaching. Only dead fish swim with the current!

  3. Z. Well clearly it is ok to go off and be a Buddhist or a Hindu, there is no difference as long as we all feel the Lurve! What on earth do they think is going on, if they think at all in the Vatican these days…

  4. It is heresy. Example: of course again not openly and leaving scope for interpretations, by saying that there is only one certainty that we are all children of God (which is not true anyway, as not all people are baptised) he denies all truths taught by Catholic Church as ordered by Our Lord Jesus Christ. Lets stress it: he denies believing in all of them as he states that for him only one thing is certain – so logically everything else must be doubtful.

    And what’s with ‘collaborating’ with those who think differently? Looks like encouraging people to say not ‘I believe in One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church’ but ‘I believe in church consisting of all different religions, collaborating with everybody and celebrating people of this earth’. Lucifer himself would most certainly celebrate this and shout ‘Oh yes!’.

    God help us all.

  5. That video is a shocker. It’s incredible. How angry must God be at this pope?

    What would priests say if we asked if it was okay for us to become Hindus, Muslims, Buddhist etc? How could they say it was wrong when the Pope doesn’t as much as mention Jesus Christ in his prayer intention for January 2016 when he is praising false religions?

  6. I don’t know what to say either, Christina, except to wonder whether the Church is still on the road to Calvary, or whether she has now been nailed to the Cross. So now, assuming the latter, not only has the devil left the Church in ruins through false obedience, he has nailed the Church to the Cross with “love.” Moreover, since this has Freemasonry’s fingerprints all over it, perhaps it could be said that, in the secular realm, they have achieved tyranny through bureaucracy, whereas in the spiritual realm, they have culminated the obscuring Passion of the Church through warm and fuzzy sentimentality. Both methods are the “soft” route.

    We have to persevere at the foot of the Cross. Prayer and penance. Redoubled.

    • RCA Victor

      That’s a great article by John Vennari. I’m glad he points out that the popes prior to Francis were also preaching the pan-religious heresy. People tend to forget that and think of them, especially Pope Benedict, as very good, orthodox or conservative, when they were just as bad as Pope Francis but not so open about it IMHO.

  7. Surely if this man has any True Catholic Blood within him he has to go now . Does HE as Pope not even know Christs Teachings ” I am the WAY the truth and the life ,no one can come to The Father except through me ” a simple text but O SO Powerful . And where in The Gospels does it say the way to The Father is through Budda or through Mohamud . The question is The Pope a Catholic is now no joke . Expect to see him next on the Ganges chanting Harri Krishna .

  8. I am shocked rigid at that video. What a terrible situation we are in. What can be in a pope’s mind to refuse to preach Christ, the one Saviour? I am stunned, yet again, at this Pope.

  9. You know, it’s the sloppy music in the background and all this pseudo-sincere ‘love, love, love’ stuff that irritates me most. Shades of 1970s hippie-dom. He’ll be throwing flowers around next. And this is the head of the Catholic Church! It’s embarrassing.

    Is there any way of getting rid of this loony, short of a second Reformation?

    • Pew Catholic and Helen,

      This question has been asked and answered umpteen times on this blog but I’m not sure that we’ve been absolutely correct. We have hitherto said that nobody on this earth can depose a pope, blah blah, but I’ve just remembered this article from the Remnant which may cast more light on the subject, since there is a school of thought which argues that if a pope falls into heresy he can be deposed. The trouble is, even in the above video, the pope is not spouting open heresy. It’s all in the impression given, which is that every religion is pleasing to God. He doesn’t openly say it, unless I’ve forgotten that. I’ve not had the chance to read it right through so would you two read and report back, please and thank you.

      Does the article say a pope CAN or MAY be deposed? If so, how on this earth do we go about it. If it’s a simple change.org petition, consider it done 😀

      • Editor,

        Yes, according to that article, a Pope may AND can be deposed, but this action must be taken by an “Imperfect Council,” i.e. one that is convened “with those members who can be found when the Church is in a given condition.” “Unlike a perfect council [where the body is united to the head, i.e. bishops with pope], it cannot define doctrines or issue decrees that regulate the universal Church, but only possesses the authority to decide the matter that necessitated its convocation. Cajetan notes that there are only two cases that justify convoking an imperfect council. They are: ‘when there is a single heretical pope to be deposed, and when there are several doubtful supreme pontiffs’. (37) In such exceptional cases, a general council can be called without, or even against, the will of the Pope.”

        As to whether or not Pope Francis can be convicted of heresy, I suggest that The Remnant’s petition for him to step down is certainly a good place to start the deliberation. However, a more practical question looms: who among this jellyfish episcopate has the spine to call such a council? And even if someone were found, how many bishops would have the spine to attend? And then, how many would have the spine to depose?

        Suddenly I’m depressed…..

        • There is no chance of his removal. Too popular with the general public and ‘Catholics’ generally… Going to be a waiting game – but is the damage irreversible – will the next Pope not simply canonise this individual for erm… being popular?!? The title and office has been desecrated and I fear this will not be corrected!

          • Michelangelo

            I have a feeling that Pope Francis is the last of the Modernist Popes. My gut instinct is that the higher clergy have got such a fright with him that they’ll make sure the next Pope has strong Traditional leanings. The good thing about Francis is that he has opened a lot of eyes at last to the insidious error of Modernism.

            • I hope you’re right! But it seems all the modernist clergy and laity, from the ‘neo-conservatives’ through to the hardened dissenters love him. I recently saw an article (can’t remember where) which said that 70% of Catholics now ‘support homosexuality’. If that is true, I wonder if even a future strong Pope could pull that lot back from the abyss.

              • Westminsterfly,

                Ah! But Our Lord is still in charge of His Church and we know that the Gates of Hell, presently threatening, will not prevail. That much is absolutely certain. The Church will be restored to her former glory, and very soon now I suspect.

        • RCA Victor,

          “who among this jellyfish episcopate has the spine to call such a council?”

          What about Cardinal Burke?

          • I agree – Cardinal Burke it is and I think he is moving in that direction, as he is more and more outspoken about pope Francis.

            • His Eminence is still not anywhere close to Archbishop Lefebvre for heroism in defending the Faith, though he is a little ray of light, together with Bishop Athanasius Schneider and one or two others, amidst the darkness of a generally silent episcopate.

  10. Just watching on the Anti Catholic BBC about so called Hispanic Catholics converting to The Anti Christ religion of Islam . Does this Pope give them his blessing to do this,after all according to him it doesn’t seem to make any difference . Itwidgieyetheboak.

    • FOOF

      Unfortunately, for years now, Hispanic Catholics seem willing to convert to anything remotely resembling a religion. Begs lots of questons about the “Catholic education” in home, school and pulpit. A bit like Scots Catholics who won’t convert to other religions, in the main, because they’re too busy cooking Haggis and learning the Highland Fling. 😀

  11. A priest sent me this link just now, with an exhortation to watch both videos.

    Well, we’ve seen the first video (topic of this thread) but then below there is the same video, with different messages throughout, inserted by an American blogger whose surname I can never spell, Louis something beginning with V (Verrechio?) That second video is hilarious. Enjoy!

    • Editor,

      It’s Verrecchio (we Italians have to defend the spelling of each other’s names, you know). Louie has done numerous videos under the name “The Tradwriter,” in which he spoofs the Godfather movie. He recently converted his traditionalist blog to another name, which I will not promote since I much prefer this one, but he is a frequent speaker at traditionalist conferences, an associate of John Vennari, Chris Ferrara, John Rao, etc. In short, he belongs to the elite traditionalist Italian Mafia! 🙂

      Anyway, he’s certainly nailed it with his replacement captions.

      • RCA Victor,

        A member of the “elite traditionalist Italian Mafia” who according to one of our American readers, still attends the novus ordo.. ,maybe that’s changed, mind you, was a while back she mentioned meeting him at Mass, but, whatever, his spoof on the above video is brilliant. And I promise to practise spelling his surname correctly (and do I take it, his Christian name as well?????)

        • Editor,

          I believe Louie was “conservative Novus Ordo” until about 3 years ago, when he set out to prove – in a project with Voris – that the documents of VII could be interpreted in continuity with Tradition. Being, apparently, a rather smart Italian (how redundant can you get!), he soon discovered that they could not, and veered off into our territory, thereby earning himself the enmity of his former associates, I believe.

          Among other things, he then did a couple of exposes of Voris!

    • That second video is spot on! It’s a pity that it’s not the genuine one; might enlighten a few people and get them thinking. The video would be truly comical if its subject was not such a serious one; the denial of Jesus Christ by no less than the VICAR of Christ.

  12. BTW, bloggers (and I’m not blaming Editor or anyone for linking to Vox Cantoris), I notice that said blog seems to enjoy a rather high reputation among traditionalists. However, as usual, their fidelity is seriously tainted by at least one thing, in this case, a featured link to a blog run by Father Paul Nicholson – i.e. the spiritual director of Michael “nice rug” Voris, and, like him, a mealy-mouthed virulent hater of the SSPX, and even worse, the demagogue who had the tasteless nerve to take a cheap shot at Father Gruner the day after he died.

    If any one among you knows the author of this blog, perhaps you could convince him to disassociate himself from Fr. Nicholson…

    • RCA Victor,

      I don’t know that blog and still haven’t studied it, but since the priest who sent it directed me only to the two videos, I restricted myself to the second (having seen the first) and thought it would amuse everyone. I will tip off the priest to your alert, as the last person I want to promote is Fr Paul Nicholson or anyone/anything associated with him given his truly evil attack on Fr Gruner on the very day of Fr Gruner’s death, and that aside from his support of Voris. So, thank you for highlighting that connection.

  13. Louie’s spoof hits the nail on the head and I wish it could be as widely published as the pope’s version which will no doubt be given lots of air time in the media as it’s straight from the one who dominates the media.
    Unfortunately there hasn’t been a flood in the BBC studios yet.
    Bad thoughts are coming into my head.

    Our Lady of Fatima, pray for us.

  14. Has anyone noticed the following article in the current issue of “The Tablet” (sorry editor!!) on page 6: “No going back”?
    The article speaks of a new document issued by the Commission of the Holy See for Religious Relations with the Jews (The Gifts and Calling of God are Irrevocable) and introduces it with these words:
    A new Vatican document has broken theological ground by stating explicitly that Jews can be saved despite not believing in Jesus Christ…
    Has anyone read this document?

  15. What’s wrong with this blog?? Your reply wasn’t there at 8.15 on my tablet, Ed, but it was posted at 7.39!

    • Er…Christina… does that not suggest there’s something wrong with your tablet, not this blog? Or am I missing something? Numbers are not my strong suit, especially when they’re attached to my bank account, but looks to me like if I posted it earlier than it is showing on your tablet, hey presto, call me a simple gal if you like, but I’d say the tablet is to blame 😉

      Anyway, now Crofterlady has no excuse for not getting through – between us, we’ve given her enough links to make a necklace – with matching bracelet!

  16. As someone with Catholic sympathies, but who is not Christian, I am genuinely asking for advice on where to find true Christianity. The last scene in the video is suggesting that all religions are the same. If this is coming directly from the Vatican, then why should anyone bother with Christ? People might as well be atheists as long as they believe in “love”.This sounds to me like the Catholic Church is heading down the same secular path as the church of Scotland and the Anglicans etc. As I said, I am not Christian, but am interested in Christianity. I am not enarmoured of atheism as it breaks down into logical incoherence, I find it ultimately dehumanising and that it literally offers nothing as a way to live. How would any of the contibuters here respond to someone like myself who is looking for something more than the secular world offers and who is sick of the continuing secularisation of Scotland, and the continuing capitulation of all the Churches in Scotland to the secular world and to islam? This is a genuine question, and I would appreciate any comments.

    • Andrew,

      Welcome! And thank you for your honest question. I know our bloggers will be delighted to offer you their thoughts. I will allow one very good article on the subject of the only place where it is possible to find true Christianity – the Catholic Church – to speak for itself, and then catch up with you when you’ve had time to digest it.

      I realise that the video is a very poor advertisement for Catholicism, but that’s because we are living through a period of intense crisis in the Church, unique in its nature and extent. The one thing that we find helps us not to lose faith, is that God sent His Mother to prepare us for this crisis, and what we are witnessing today has been foretold, in the 20th century.

      Sceptics laugh at such an idea, but, as the atheist George Bernard Shaw wrote in the preface to his play St Joan, (and I paraphrase) who’s the real “nut” – people who claim to believe in supernatural beings and accept it is possible to see/hear them, or those who claim to believe but rubbish the idea that they could appear or speak to us? Here’s the exact quote from Shaw: “If Joan was mad, all Christendom was mad, too, for people who believe devoutly in the existence of celestial personages are every whit as mad in that sense as the people who think they see them.”

      Anyway, before we get into those prophecies – ironically approved Church apparitions (not all are approved but these are) – let me offer the promised article, which I hope you will find helpful. Penned by a Jesuit priest, it is very clear and I hope you will find it helpful.

      Click here to read it…

      • Many thanks for the replys. I certainly will read the article and hopefully it will give me more insight. I agree ( even as someone from the outside looking in ) that the Church appears to be in crisis and its lack of clarity doesn’t help.
        Just a thought- for someone like myself who isn’t a Christian but is interested in learning more, it occurs to me that there must be many more people out there who feel the same way and are hoping for the Church to make a better case for itself.
        Even in my ignorance of Catholicism, i’ll say a prayer for the Church. ( I at least know the Our Father and Hail Mary, haha ).
        Many thanks again.

          • Editor,

            I don’t mind at all. I do not profess any religion in particular. I am perhaps more drawn to Christianity, but i don’t call myself a Christian as i don’t attend church, so i think it would be disingenuous to say i was. Maybe you are wondering why someone who doesn’t profess any religion is commenting on a Catholic site? I suppose I just became more interested in the question of God as I got older, through certain things occurring in my life and asking the old question ” is this all there is?”. I hope this helps to answer your question.

            • Andrew,

              I thought the article by the Jesuit was very clear so what did you think of it? Maybe it’s clear to me because I’m already a Catholic!

              Anyway, I wish you well with your search. I can’t think of anything to add except to say that God will keep on at you until you succumb! He’s not called the Hound of Heaven for nothing!

              • Athanasius,

                I don’t know about Andrew, but I found that video to be wonderfully inspiring and beautiful. Thank you for posting it.

                • RCA Victor,

                  Yes, I also found it inspiring. I thought it might also inspire Andrew Fitz, who is clearly being called by Our Lord right now to turn to Him. Not everyone hears that call, which usually comes in the form of a sudden questioning of what life is all about, the shortness of time and the length of eternity. We should all earnestly remember Andrew in our prayers.

        • Andrew,

          Not to overwhelm you with suggestions, but it might be useful if you were to start reading a traditional Catechism, such as the Baltimore Catechism (developed in the US, this is the 1941 revised edition, i.e. before the Vatican II revolution: http://www.catholicity.com/baltimore-catechism/ ) or the Penny Catechism, which used to be popular in the UK before the revolution (http://www.proecclesia.com/penny%20catechism/ ), and then pose questions based on your reading.

          For a more elaborate catechism, this one: http://www.amazon.com/My-Catholic-Faith-Louis-LaRavoire/dp/0963903268 This one is also on line: http://www.catholicbook.com/AgredaCD/MyCatholicFaith/Contents.htm

    • Hello Andrew,

      Welcome, and a brief heads up: One of the perplexities you will have to sort through as you study the Catholic Faith is the stark difference between the traditional teachings, liturgies, disciplines, morals, theology etc. of the Church, and what is being cranked out, what has been cranked out (beginning, literally, on mimeograph machines back in the 60s) since the Second Vatican Council, 1962-65, also known as the “French Revolution of the Church.”

      Another source of confusion for a newcomer is the cadre of well-paid talking heads who, as they attempt to reassure the faithful that there is “nothing to see here” in the bizarre utterings of Pope Francis, rationalize and spin said utterings into alleged harmlessness or even praiseworthiness, practically from the moment they appear.

      However, you have come to a blog in which some extremely capable and knowledgeable apologists participate (I’m not one of them, I’m here to learn as well), and who will be of great help to you in your search for the truth. Their help to me has been invaluable.

    • Andrew Fitz,

      The most important advice I would give to a genuine seeker after the truth is that he should pray to the Mother of God. Trust me, if you are genuinely looking for divine truth and peace of soul you will assuredly receive the necessary gifts by praying earnestly for them.

      Now I know that you are not a Catholic and may therefore have doubts about praying to the Blessed Virign, but if you could only bring yourself to ask her for guidance I guarantee that you will be given it in abundance.

      The short prayers I would suggest are: “O Mary conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee” (Repeat three times when praying). and then to Our Lord Jesus Christ “Lord, that I may see”.

      As for the present crisis of faith in the Catholic Church, you will see upon examination that there has been no Magisterial (authoritative) alteration to the Catholic religion at all. What has happened is that senior prelates, including recent Popes, failing in fidelity to the faith handed down through the centuries, have made announcements and changes according to their own inclinations that run contrary to what the Church has taught for two thousand years. The damage done to the Faith as a result has been so much greater because the Catholic faithful trusted their shepherds too much, forgetting that they are fallible men governing a divine institution, and therefore as likely as anyone to fall into serious error.

      The errors they have peddled since Vatican II, entirely personal errors, pushing false ecumenism and inter-religious initiatives that are well condemned by the Church, have been mistakenly taken as binding the faithful. But if you look deeply you will find that none of these dangerous innovations carries the weight of Apostolic authority. This is proof positive, if ever it was required, that Our Lord protects His Church from officially teaching error.

      And if you want proof also that the Catholic religion is the only true one, then just ask yourself if any purely human institution could have withstood for two thousand years what the Catholic Church has endured historically, from enemies both without and within. The fact that the Church is still in existence after so long a time and so many assaults confirms what Our Lord said to St. Peter concerning her, that is, “the gates of Hell will not prevail”.

      If you get the divine help I hope you will then seek out the Traditional Catholic Faith, that is, the Latin Faith handed down and practiced without alteration by every Catholic for nearly two millennia up to that fated Council, Vatican II. This present crisis in the Church will end in God’s good time, just as other man-made disasters affecting the Church over the centuries have passed away. In the meantime, many Catholics are clinging to ancient Mass and faith knowing them to be the Mass and faith of the saints and martyrs.

      I hope this is of some help to you.

    • Andrew

      I don’t know if you’re familiar with G K Chesterton, but if not, I would highly recommend his books, particularly “Orthodoxy”, and “The Thing, Why I am a Catholic”.

      God bless you in your search.

      • Therese, I think that’s an excellent suggestion. Andrew, I was thinking that as you are already drawn vaguely to Christianity, you should look at the conversion accounts of such giants of the Oxford Movement who, converting from other Christian denominations, discovered for themselves, often painfully, that the one, holy, apostolic, Catholic Church is the true Church founded by Christ. I would also recommend Ian Ker’s biography of John Henry Newman. The reason for this suggestion is that these great men were converting to the Catholic Church as bloggers here know her, either from their youth or through recognition of the devastation wrought in her since the Second Vatican Council. As you yourself recognised from that video, all is not well at present in the Church on earth, and recent Popes, especially Pope Francis have succumbed to Modernism, the ‘synthesis of all the heresies’. Be sure to seek out a traditionalist priest if Our Lady answers our prayers for you, and practical advice on this score will always be available on this blog.

  17. Whoever runs Father Isaac Mary Relyea’s Facebook account just posted this article from a website I’ve never heard of before – Denziger-Bergoglio – but it appears to be a group of Spanish priests and now English-speaking priests as well who have been busy analyzing the more scandalous public statements of Pope Francis since he appeared on the balcony. Well guess what, their analyses have reached 100 in number already, and they are offering a free PDF download of their work here: http://en.denzingerbergoglio.com/2016/01/08/weve-reached-100-and-have-a-present-for-you/

    Here is a quote from the article introducing the book:

    After several months, we have reached a centenary, with one hundred studies analyzing diverse affirmations of Francis, in contrast with the two thousand years of Church teaching; from the Sacred Scriptures to a total of 54 popes, 10 Councils, 25 Fathers of the Church, 15 Doctors and several fundamental Church texts, as well as the pronouncements of Roman Congregations, the Episcopal Magisterium, and various Saints.

  18. That is one incredible video! So, what now for the infallible Catholic dogma ‘extra ecclesiam nulla salus’?

    “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema. For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? If I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.” (Galatians I: 8-10).

    “Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” (John 3:5).

    I wonder if Pope Francis, in his “dialogue of mercy” with other “faiths,” actually believes in these divine Scriptural truths handed down. Being the religious syncretist that he clearly is, I have serious reason to doubt it. This Pope is the Church’s worst nightmare and the worst thing that could have happened to those still unhappily separated from the true Church established by God for their salvation. I cannot think of a more uncharitable act towards one’s neighbour than to pretend that he can save his soul apart from the Church founded by Christ Our Lord. Mercy of this perverse kind the world can live without.

  19. On what cross did Buddha or Allah hang, beaten. mocked and scourged to an inch of their lives?. Where are their beautiful words from that same cross, the first one full of compassion and love,”Father, forgive them, they know not what they do”?. Was INRI placed above their heads?. Who was it that took their bodies down from that cross and placed them into the arms of a heartbroken and sorrowful mother?. Who again was it that ran to the empty tomb to find the stone rolled away and be told they are not here they are risen?. Did they appear to anyone on the road to Emmaus or invite the doubting to put their hands into their sides?. The answer to all is plain. It was Jesus of Nazareth King of the Jews who alone hung on that cross and redeemed us from our sins he and no other, so that every knee in heaven and earth, and under the earth should bend at the name of Jesus, the comforter of the afflicted, the sole mediator between God and man, the Saviour of the world, our hope and resurrection, the one who gave us his Blessed Mother to be our mother too. So, away with the mockery, who can settle for dross when we have pure gold. Nay, but what do I say?, gold, or all the jewels and riches belong to him anyway, they are also his creatures. What I mean to say is that the Catholic Church has all the treasures, the greatest of which is the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass of All Time, where once again we are at the foot of the cross, in Adoration, Thanksgiving,Reparation, and Petition, and sinners ‘though we are, to receive, knees to the ground, the Bread of Angels.And now I ask,what more could anyone wish for, and what wish could be more fruitful and charitable than that the inhabitants whole world would acknowledge the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church and proclaim with one voice Jesus King and Mary Queen.

  20. Some time ago we discussed ‘Chrislam’ on another thread. Is this just another step in the softening-up process?

  21. What is the consensus on this quote from St Catherine of Siena?

    “Even if the Pope were Satan incarnate, we ought not to raise up our heads against him, but calmly lie down to rest on his bosom. He who rebels against our Father is condemned to death, for that which we do to him we do to Christ: we honor Christ if we honor the Pope; we dishonor Christ if we dishonor the Pope. I know very well that many defend themselves by boasting: “They are so corrupt, and work all manner of evil!” But God has commanded that, even if the priests, the pastors, and Christ-on-earth were incarnate devils, we be obedient and subject to them, not for their sakes, but for the sake of God, and out of obedience to Him.” — St. Catherine of Siena, SCS, p. 201-202, p. 222, (quoted in Apostolic Digest, by Michael Malone, Book 5: “The Book of Obedience”, Chapter 1: “There is No Salvation Without Personal Submission to the Pope”).

    • Michelangeo,

      Notwithstanding Athanasius’s comments, which make good sense, that quote may be explained in a number of ways, including particular context, despite the apparent generality of the sentiments, especially the following two: firstly, it may fit into the category of hyperbole, alongside St Therese of Lisieux’s famous quote where she expresses the desire to be a priest, a missionary, a just about anything else you care to name, as she poetically expressed her love for the Faith and her desire to spread it. She didn’t really want to be a priest (despite what the feminists claim) but wanted to express her thoughts as forcefully as possible. Similarly, all other things being equal, Catholics do obey the Pope and it’s unusual, thankfully, to have to make a distinction between the Pope and the Faith. Catherine would never have made (never did make) that distinction in favour of any pope. So, that quote may be an example of the saint stressing the importance of obedience towards the pontiff, in the normal life of the Church.

      Secondly, she was also writing as a Third Order Dominican, and so, although a lay person, she was imbued with the religious application of obedience which is, all but absolute, in that vows are taken to obey, which put a wholly different complexion on the question of obedience.

      Stories abound in convents and monasteries of Superiors commanding the most ridiculous things and being obeyed, only for the command to then be shown to be providential. Like the Carmelite nuns in London during the Second World War, whose Superior instructed them to use a different door to return from the garden after finishing some work there; their surprise at this command for a number of reasons did not prevent them from obeying without question. As they returned through the permitted door, the back door from the garden which they would normally use, but for this odd – and apparently silly – command, was bombed.

      Remember, too, that St Catherine was not slow to speak her mind to popes in her frank letters, and even called on them to resign if they were not up to the job. Were she alive today, there is no doubt that she would say “scrub that” to the person (like Michelangelo) quoting her own words back at her – perhaps adding, in thoroughly modern jargon: “we’ve moved on from that, chum”!

  22. Michelangelo

    I think the context was the ‘Great Western Schism,’ then raging, during which the true Pope was in exile in Avignon, France, and an anti-pope sat on the throne of Peter in Rome. The Church was very divided over loyalty, the faithful not really knowing who was the true Pope. Indeed, certain saints were for a while divided in the matter.

    To be honest, I’m not so sure that Michael Malone has provided a true interpretation of St. Catherine’s words. What worries me is the part about obedience, as we know for a fact that our faith obliges us to refuse obedience to anyone, even a Pope, if they try to harm the faith. In this case, obedience to God is a higher virtue than obedience to man, so I’m very suspicious of the inclusion of apparent blind obedience in a quote attributed to Saint Catherine. She certainly was not that kind of submissive soul hereself.

    I reckon St. Paul’s example, when he corrected St. Peter in public, is the example all Catholic subjects should follow, which ties in perfectly with this admonitions of the following two great Doctors of the Church:

    St. Thomas Aquinas writes: “There being an imminent danger to the Faith, prelates must be questioned, even publicly, by their subjects. Thus, St. Paul, who was a subject of St. Peter, questioned him publicly on account of an imminent danger of scandal in a matter of Faith…” (Summa Theologiae, IIa IIae, Q. 33, A. 4).

    St. Robert Bellarmine concurs and distinguishes for us between legitimate resistance and forbidden judgment. He writes: “Just as it is licit to resist the Pontiff who aggresses the body, it is also licit to resist the one who aggresses the soul or who disturbs civil order, or, above all, who attempts to destroy the Church. I say that it is licit to resist him by not doing what he orders and preventing his will from being executed; it is not licit, however, to judge, punish or depose him, since these are acts proper to a superior.” (De Romano Pontifice, lib. 2, chap. 29, Opera omnia, Paris: Pedone Lauriel, 1871, vol. 1, p. 418.

    I’m perfectly sure that St. Catherine would have agreed with this. We are all obliged to honour the Pope, pray for him and obey him when he commands something that is not dangerous to faith. But our obedience is not blind obedience, which would make us less free children of God (and His Church) as slaves to the whims of men.

  23. And this was the same St. Catherine of Siena who wrote numerous letters to the Pope, rebuking him over various issues – respectfully and with humility, that is.

    As for this quote used by Malone, it is disturbing that it is all over the anti-Catholic Protestant fundamentalist websites, cited as evidence that the Church is the “whore of Babylon,” as they put it.

  24. Christopher Ferrara, right on the mark as usual:

    The essence of this little production is the same idea that has pervaded the human element of the Church over the past fifty years: that all basically nice people go to Heaven, as long as they are sincere in their beliefs — whatever they are — and follow their conscience, whatever it tells them to do. As long as they “believe in love.” This is not the Gospel of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John but rather the “Gospel” of John, Paul, George and Ringo. All you need is love! But love of what? You know, love.

    http://www.fatimaperspectives.com/sv/perspective819.asp

    Oh, and of course:

  25. Since we’ve got the Beatles here, can anyone explain to me why such an outpouring of grief, and the dedication of the BBC Victoria Derbyshire slot and news throughout the day to the death of this David Bowie? Until today, although I had vaguely heard his name and knew he was connected with the new religion of celebrity I knew nothing more about him. Yet this morning I heard him praised to the skies for sexual perversions (liberating people to ‘be themselves’) and all the usual vices of the celebrity scene. Today I met an apparently sane middle-aged lady, a fellow dog-walker, who told me that she had been crying all day because David Bowie had died! Anyway, as this thread is about that appalling video of Pope Francis, I just wondered, and lo and behold!

    http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2016/01/11/vatican-culture-official-pays-tribute-to-david-bowie/

    • Christina,

      There was a similar outpouring of grief, sympathy and effusive praise by various American “statesmen” when Michael Jackson, the notorious child-molester/pop singer, died. If you want to read about what sort of person David Bowie was, have a look at his Wikipedia entry – but make sure your stomach is empty first.

      I spent an hour at my coffee shop this afternoon, attempting to do some spiritual reading. One of the Sirius XM stations they usually have playing in the background had no music today – instead they had people calling in to share their memories about David Bowie!!

      As for the Vatican’s “culture official’s” Tweet, how much more confirmation do we need that these so-called clergy are completely secularized? Just keep dancing in those worldly aisles, you apostate princes of the Church – soon Our Lord will be tying your shoelaces together….

  26. Christina

    You couldn’t make this stuff up, a Vatican “culture official,” a Cardinal no less, praises the work of a counter-culture rock singer. New depths are being plummed every day under the Francis Pontificate. Really disgraceful!

    • Gabriel Syme,

      One of the authors of that piece is Peter Stanford, who once – in a TV show called Some of my best friends are Catholics (guess who appeared as well???) – played a word association game with the host, Dermot O’Leary, and it was on the following note that the programme ended:

      O’Leary: “Devil”
      Stanford: “delicious”

      At which association, both “gentlemen” fell about laughing like a pair of daft schoolgirls.

      Need I say more?

      • Only that Stanford is a supporter of women’s ordination, and once made a ludicrous programme about the alleged female ‘Pope Joan’ which was shown on TV a while back.

  27. Interesting that the video represents Catholicism by a plastic doll baby rather than a crucifix.
    Nor am I impressed by Popes kissing the holy symbols of other religions. Our tradition is to destroy idolatrous items, not kiss them. How long before St Boniface, who cut down Thor’s Oak in 723, ceases to be a saint, is retrospecively condemned, and apologies issued by the Vatican?

  28. Andrew Paterson,

    Well said.

    Here’s an interesting comment from Dici – official organ of the SSPX onine – on the video and the fallout from the antics of Papa Francis in general:

    Confusion Increasing, Audience Dwindling


    On January 6, 2016, on the Feast of the Epiphany of our Lord, the Vatican broadcast a video in seven languages in which Pope Francis asks viewers to pray for interreligious dialogue, declaring that “Many think in different ways, feel things differently” and that “in this spectrum of religions, we have only one certitude for all: we are all children of God.” Now this video shows several representatives of different religions—some of them total strangers to Baptism, which alone can make us children of God—say one after the other: “I have confidence in Buddha,” “I believe in God,” “I believe in Jesus Christ,” or again, “I believe in God, Allah,” and then declaring, in front of the camera, “I believe in love.” Then four hands appear holding the Infant Jesus, a Buddha, a Jewish menorah (seven branched candlestick) and a Muslim tasbih (prayer beads).

    In an interview granted to Famille chrétienne (Christian Family) on December 28, 2015, Archbishop André-Joseph Léonard, former Archbishop of Brussels (Belgium), returning from the recent Synod on the Family, deplored “the fact that ambiguity was cultivated on the most sensitive points,” and he revealed: “some bishops have told me that the texts had been deliberately composed in an ambiguous way, so as to make it possible to interpret them in different ways.”

    For the 100th weekly audience of the pope, on August 26, 2015, the official statistics released by the Prefecture of the Papal Household show an inexorable erosion of the number of faithful: 1,548,500 were present at the thirty audiences of 2013; 1,199,000 present at the forty-three audiences of 2014; 400,100 present at the twenty-seven audiences of 2015. This means that the average number of persons present at each audience is as follows: 51,617 in 2013; 27,883 in 2014; and 14,818 in 2015. In other words, each year attendance of the faithful on Saint Peter’s Square diminished by half compared with the preceding year. And the Jubilee that commenced in early December has failed to apply the brakes to this constant decline.

    This is why some Vaticanists are beginning to say and to write that the present doctrinal confusion does not just sow trouble in minds, it empties the auditorium. With an unsettling regularity. Father Alain Lorans. Source – Dici

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