Bishop On Migrants – Pope Wrong!

Pope Francis’s message Sunday couldn’t have been clearer: With hundreds of thousands of refugees flowing into Europe, Catholics across the continent had a moral duty to help by opening their churches, monasteries and homes as sanctuaries.

On Monday, the church’s spiritual leader for southern Hungary — scene of some of the heaviest migrant flows anywhere in Europe — had a message just as clear: His Holiness is wrong.

“They’re not refugees. This is an invasion,” said Bishop Laszlo Kiss-Rigo, whose dominion stretches across the southern reaches of this predominantly Catholic nation. “They come here with cries of ‘Allahu Akbar.’ They want to take over.”

The bishop’s stark language reflects a broader spiritual struggle in Europe over how to respond to a burgeoning flow of predominantly Muslim men, women and children onto a largely Christian continent.

The pope’s call for compassion and charity is competing with a view most prominently articulated by Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban, who has cast the flow of migrants as a direct challenge to Europe’s Christian character.

And despite the heat that Orban has taken worldwide for attempts to crack down on some of the globe’s most vulnerable people by halting their journeys or throwing them into prison, his stance has seemed to only burnish his reputation here as a no-nonsense nationalist who will defend the country against an onslaught of “tens of millions” of new arrivals.

I’m in total agreement with the prime minister,” Kiss-Rigo said in an interview Monday.

The pope, by contrast, “doesn’t know the situation.”

The situation, as Kiss-Rigo describes it, is that Europe is being inundated by people who are posing as refugees but actually present a grave threat to the continent’s “Christian, universal values.”  Read entire report here

Comment:

We’ve touched on the so-called “migrant crisis” on the General Discussion thread, but since it is apparently worsening, and since we’ve now got the Scots Bishops among those who are calling for us all to open our homes to the “refugees”, it might be helpful to consider the alleged migrant crisis from the perspective of the Hungarian Bishop, Laszlo Kiss-Rigo, which stands in stark contrast to the Pope’s opinion on the matter.  Is this a case of innocent people fleeing torture and death – or is there something else at work here?

83 responses

  1. When posting a comment to alert readers who have been engaged in conversation about this topic on the General Discussion thread to this new thread, I clicked on a short YouTube video clip posted by Constantine about Syrian refugees. At the end, I noticed another one on the YouTube screen, with Nigel Farage in discussion about this (among other) topics. I’ve only had time to listen to the first few minutes but it sounds interesting and I’ll view it all later. In meantime, I’ll post it below as it seems relevant to what the Hungarian Bishop has said on the subject…

  2. As I understand things, the hostilities in Syria and various other countries are actually being bankrolled by the oil-rich Muslim nations of the Middle East.

    Funny how the ‘international community’ isn’t railing against these Middle Eastern countries and asking why THEY aren’t exactly falling over themselves to accept some of the migrants. Could the dependency on their oil have something to do with it, perhaps?

  3. I am in agreeance with the bishop.Were they to get as far as Scotland I absolutely would not have an open door.You don’t know who you would be inviting in.I cannot get out off my mind this young Muslim on TV saying he couldn’t wait for the day when the Islamic flag flew over downing St and Britain was under sharia law .My own feeling is that by allowing all these people access to the country the likelihood off this happening becomes more real and for that reason I agree wholeheartedly that it is tantamount to an invasion.

  4. I have been going on for years about the persecution of Christians in the middle east. And except other Christians, not many people were interested. So, it is annoying that everybody has now jumped on the refugee bandwagon only because they saw a picture of a dead child in the media. Are people really this superficial?

    These newbies have no understanding for who the real victims are. They don’t know what it is like in Syria and Iraq. Their understanding of a refugee is someone on a boat. The boat people and the people who cross the border are simply the ones who have pushed their way to the front. People who push their way to the front are not likely to be the most vulnerable. The images I have seen show healthy, well groomed, well dressed young men.

    Even Cameron’s policy to take refugees straight from the camps in going to harm Christians. In the middle east Christians are a special victim group. No one suffers like they do. They are not able to live in the refugee camps in peace because they are driven out by Muslims. They are hiding in secret locations.

    We need to priorotise Christians. Just as Jews were prioritised during World War II. No one is saying non-Jews suffered during WWII. But Jews needed our help more because they are a special victim group.

    This is repulsive to our politically correct society. We have been brainwashed into thinking Muslims are always the victims and that prioritising Christians is bigoted and racist, whatever. No secularists cares about the Christians, they are too Christian for the Left to care, and too brown for the Right to care. Farage is right to suggest we should prioritise Christians.

    • I can understand why that has been banned. I don’t agree it should have been, since I am unconvinced that censorship is right or is generally anything other than counter-productive (to paraphrase Voltaire).

      However, the view expressed is disturbing indeed, and certainly should be to anyone who regards themselves as Christian.

      In my view, what Pope Francis said was absolutely correct and it is equally correct that the Church of which I am a member should be taking a lead in this way.

      What Orban is saying in Hungary, and some are saying in this country (Farage, Britain First, the EDL and others), is fundamentally at variance with my understanding of Christian teaching, with the teachings of Jesus.

      I also think it instructive to look back on what the reactionary, xenophobic voices are saying today and comparing them to what was said just prior to WWII. For example, a quick google search will find what the Daily Mail was saying in 1938 on the subject of Jews fleeing the Nazis, and the similarity to what is being written in the same paper now is instructive, whilst being very disturbing.

      • Andrew,

        So, what are you saying? That there should be unlimited numbers of migrants allowed into whatever country they want to go to?

        The Bishop in Hungary said that the pope was wrong on this because they are the people on the ground, who know the situation. It’s all well and good to sound nice and “Christian” by saying everyone is welcome, but if there are no houses, no money (and we’re all in this austerity together, remember? That has to include these migrants, surely?) then how are they going to be helped.

        Watching these migrants, supposedly poor and destitute, with their mobile phones etc. makes me wonder, and I’m not talking about the video – I’ve not seen it, I’m just talking about what I’ve observed on the news.

        • As to your first point, basically yes when it comes to refugees.

          The Bishop of Hungary seems to reflect the rather nasty views of the politicians of that country (although a number of Hungarian friends of mine would distance themselves from these kinds of sentiments).

          We are a wealthy country, with ample resources to help, if we are prepared to make the effort rather than bleating “it’s mine, all mine”.

          Do you really believe we are all in this austerity thing together? I don’t, and the evidence of who is actually paying for austerity would support that.

          And for your last point, as if nowadays having a mobile phone and not a lot of anything else signifies some kind of extreme wealth, especially given that many of those who are refugees were professionals in the countries they are fleeing.

          • Andrew,

            You appear to be missing the point that so many objective observers have made, which is that the hoardes flooding Europe at the moment are not all refugees. Indeed it would appear that there are many more economic migrants amongst the numbers than refugees, coming from many different parts of the Middle East and Africa.

            Pope Francis himself appears to have retracted somewhat on his previous comments, saying now that there should be a vetting process in place to ensure that only refugee families be given priority admittance to the various EU countries. He has also touched on the very real danger, raised by others of standing, that this present flood of unchecked migrants and refugees may well be disguising a silent infiltration of ‘sleeper Jihadists’ into Europe. Have you considered that possibility (or rather probability)?

            And by the way, we are not a wealthy enough country to be able to sustain the kinds of numbers that are heading here from both Eastern and Middle Eastern countries. Our national infrastructure, hospitals, housing, etc., is already buckling under the pressure of years of the open-door migration policy. The entire business is a complete nonsense, not remotely encouraged by the teachings of Our Lord in the Gospels. Remember, the Almighty is a God of order, not chaos.

            • I seem unable to post for some reason however Athanasius you beat me too it. I was going to make a similar point regarding the supposed wealth off Britain who cannot sustain their own people not to mention the many who have worked all their adult life and still live hand to mouth trying to provide for their families and believe me I know only to well this struggle as will many others.Suffice to say you made the point splendidly

            • I don’t see how I’m missing the point at all, since I was talking about refugees, as was the Pope. Economic migration is a separate (also complex) issue, but not the issue being discussed here.

              The claim that we are not a wealthy country is just an excuse to avoid our responsibilities. Not just to refugees, but to those already living in Britain. It is an utter disgrace that people are forced to use food banks, that children go to school poorly fed and live in unacceptable housing. Refugees (and up to now, those who do not fall in the “hard-working family” category, whatever that means) are convenient scapegoats for reprehensible cuts in benefits to the poorest and most vulnerable and a secular failure to invest in schools, infrastructure, hospitals, etc.

              We are a wealthy country, of that there is no doubt. But income and wealth are highly unequally spread. Interestingly, although hardly surprisingly, society has become markedly more unequal since the financial crash, giving the lie to the “we’re all in it together” platitude.

              And we do seem to find £30bn (probably more) to fight unjust, illegal and strategically pointless wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Or many, many times more than that to bail out banks that were run badly/recklessly/fraudulently, and which, according to any sensible analysis, should just have been allowed to go bust and their directors disqualified.

              • Andrew

                You are missing the point, entirely. There is no way of distinguishing who is and who is not a refugee amongst the hundreds of thousands presently flooding Europe. Surely your own common sense tells you that these people are not all refugees fleeing war torn regions of the Middle East. This is the problem, we do not know how many of these people are genuine refugees and how many are economic migrants. The entire business is one big mess that needs sorting out before we start talking about mercy. No country could sustain the numbers currently passing into Europe, it’s ridiculous. And, as I pointed out earlier, we do not know how many of these people may be Jihadists seeking to take advantage of the situation to gain entrance to European States. These are basic questions that should be addressed. Christians must indeed be merciful to the needy, but they should equally be prudent in situations like this.

      • Take the front door off your house and see how safe you and your family are. Tell your children and grandchildren that they or their children have to remove doors from their homes and also explain to them that their safety is compromised because of current policies and practices. Look at the genocide of Haiti, Zimbabwe….. If you are still unsure, read the protocols of the learned elders of zion as this agenda comes straight from the pages. They might be called fake but they do reflect what has actually happened.

        • “If you are still unsure, read the protocols of the learned elders of zion”

          The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion are a proven fabrication. They are anti-Semitic in the extreme and were used by Hitler in his evil campaign against the Jewish people. They are absolute nonsense.

  5. Here in Ireland,we may have the same problem.One Bishop(Doran)has asked us to take them into our own homes.Would I have to remove The Sacred Heart picture.

    • Of course you would after all your an infidel an inferior being . Once you let Moslems into your house be then prepared to be thrown into the street. It’s plain to see that the Moslem way is Men first Women and Children last . By all means take in refugees but what the Pope should have said was make sure their Christians. Let Saudia Arabia and all the other Islamists take in their own after all that’s all you here from them about how charitable they all are. On another note anyone on here been banned from FBook for posting Catholic material and anti Muslim stuff as I have . Maybe Zuckerberg has turned his coat as well, wouldn’t surprise me.

      Editor: perhaps you were blocked from Facebook for using intemperate language. I’ve removed one word from your post here and a sentence from another post. We can all make all the points we make, as freely as possible, but we cannot do so in a way that may be interpreted as nasty or uncharitable and use the term “Christian” or “Catholic” in the same breath. Speak your mind, but do so without risking your words being interpreted as personally insulting to anyone or any group.

        • FOOF,

          I was going purely by your comment above. There is absolutely no need (and no writing skill required) to write in a manner which most people would consider inappropriate and even offensive. We have nuts monitoring this blog, who jump on every word – why give them ammunition? Your post is not weaker, but, in fact, stronger, for the removal of uncharitable descriptions.

          I am no fan of Facebook – I don’t have a Facebook page and we quickly deleted the Catholic Truth Facebook account when we discovered that they were not into “free speech” on the subject of homosexuality. So vote with your delete key if you believe you have been unjustly censored.

      • Faith of Our Fathers

        With respect, your comments are intemperate and completely at odds with the Christian precept that we must love our enemies and do good to those who persecute us, a divine command from Our Lord’s own lips.

        If I came across a genuine Muslim family in need, or any other family for that matter, Christian or non-Christian, then I would not rest until I had done all I could to alleviate their suffering. And by the way, that does not mean that I respect false religions or that I support the present orchestrated exodus from the Middle East. Remember the words of St. James: “The anger of man worketh not the justice of God

        • That’s just the thread that has been commented on of course I would try and help anyone in need but let’s get it into perspective .Christians are being decimated in the Middle East at an alarming rate and it seems that no government except Hungary has said Christians to be helped first . Don’t forget that most of the so called refugees are young Muslims who have come either through Turkey or from Turkey we do not know. 90% young men seems a very unbalanced number of a people fleeing to seek refuge.

          • Faith of Our Fathers

            The truth of the matter is that our Western leaders, who caused the chaos in the Middle East to begin with, should have gone back into Iraq with force to eradicate ISIS before it became the great evil it has since become. They sat back and just permitted the Christians in the region to be slaughtered. And I have to say, Pope Francis should have said more about that scandal than he did. Nevertheless, we have to also take into account that Muslims of a different sect to ISIS are also being treated harshly.

    • Tirrey,

      I recall a story from the second world war of a vicar going to the little terraced house of a miner and his wife to ask if they would take in some refugees. Her reply was for him to come back and ask her again after he had allocated all the available rooms in his spacious Vicarage.

  6. I keep wondering what is going to happen to those left behind, the old, the young, the infirm and the skint. None of them seem too concerned about having to leave them.

    It seems to me that those who are fleeing aren’t short of a few bob. If Thoms Cook was organising this mass invasion I would think that they would be looking for a few hundred pounds for the fares alone and they certainly wouldn’t be looking any fresher after flying than they are after, supposedly, walking hundreds of miles.

    • It is likely that had these emigrants simply got a passport, a tourist visa and booked a holiday in Europe it would have been a lot cheaper.

  7. Maybe we should pay heed to the view of Archbishop Pál Tomori.
    The teaching authority of the Church derives from God and is expressed by the Pope and bishops and theologians. It is the work of men of thought and letters. That is well and good. However, it seems to ignore the work of the men of action, of men like Charlemagne and Don John of Austria , among many others, famous and unknown. Without the men of action the men of letters would have gone to an early grave and there would be no Christian West at all. The Pope in his deliberations and pronouncements regarding emigrants seems to have paid no heed to Tradition, and to have effectively set aside the views of the faithful departed.

    • Andrew,

      There are many in the Catholic Church today–not a few of them in the hierarchy–who seem to resent the very notion of the Christian West. Ironically that idea would have its most strenuous defenders among the Orthodox, not certainly among Catholics who have been bitten by the same liberal bug which infected their Protestant brethren centuries earlier.

      My greatest fear for Catholocism today is that of it being overtaken by a collective amnesia. Francis’s pontificate, I am afraid, only reinforces this.

      I am afraid that unless we recover tradition we will be swept away.

  8. So now the antichrists in aprons are having their say. Right. I hope they will spare us crocodile tears about persecution at the hands of evil.

    http://eponymousflower.blogspot.ie/2015/09/freemasons-order-eu-open-borders-for.html

    TAKEN FROM THE LINKED ARTICLE:

    “The Masons proving an impressive consensus among themselves from Turkey to Portugal, from Italy to Ireland and Poland. In addition, they are also making visible a constructive convergence with the official policies of the European Union and the majority of EU member states. It’s a coincidence of intentions, that has been rarely expressed officially to this extent between Freemasonry and policy makers.

    “A singular coincidence? It may be doubted. “The agreement has one objective: The undermining of supporting elements of our community such as homeland, identity, people,” said Corrispondenza Romana.

    “The Lodges statement was publicized by Médias-press made in France.

    “The official lodges have justified the demand for unbridled immigration with overcoming “national egoism” and the primacy of undefined “general interests”, which would require an “innovative welcome policy”.
    The lodges are not only declaring noble intentions, but issue a warning. Should governments not open their borders and therefore not follow the Masonic proposals, there would be “divisions and conflicts” and to a “resurgence of nationalism” in Europe.”

    • Leo,

      Thank you for that very interesting article from the Eponymous Flower blog. Things are just getting worser and worser as they say in downtown Glasgow!

  9. Europe will be predominantly Muslim in less than 50 years. They have tried many times before. I think they will succeed this time, with the help of the useful idiots of politicians.

  10. My niece is married to a German and living in Munich. She says that the media are lying to us regarding the plight of migrants; the majority are well dressed young men replete with technological gadgets and plenty of money. They certainly don’t look as if the have walked a mile, never mind hundreds. She also says that they are causing mayhem, are aggressive and threatening the local populace.

    Can anyone tender any idea as to why the media have this dishonest agenda?

  11. Thanks for that, Olaf. That evidence just confirms a lot that of what has been posted here and elsewhere.

    Just as a follow up to the previous link to the Eponymous Flower blog’s story on the Freemasons (September 14, 1.59pm), while the following is not directly linked to the subject of this thread, it should be of interest on the subject of the dark workshops of organised naturalism and Pope Francis. Firstly, I’ll leave it to others, those so-inclined, to make claims that aren’t backed by evidence. I have no intention whatsoever of doing so. Two plus two will always equal four, not five. Nevertheless, the two quotes below should at least cause some measured thought. And I believe they weren’t the only such welcome messages from the Lodge, to greet the new Pope.

    I know the local varieties of low level Lodgemen like to portray themselves as well-intended, self-helping, charitably minded brothers, similar to a typical bunch of old duffers that can be found in the average golf club bar. That’s the line, beyond which we are which we are not supposed to enquire, if charges concerning conspiracies and tinfoil hats are to be avoided. Sorry, but I can’t buy that one.

    Can anyone name another Pope whose election generated any support and welcome amongst Her avowed enemies? The Grand Master of the Grand Orient of Italy obviously couldn’t contain himself. On March 14, 2013, the day after the pope’s inauguration, Italian Grandmaster of Freemasonry Gustavo Raffi demonstrated rather impressive foresight, if not insight, when stating that “nothing will be as it was before”:

    “With Pope Francis, nothing will be as it was before. It is a clear choice of fraternity for a Church of dialogue, which is not contaminated by the logic and temptations of temporal power.
    “A man of the poor far away from the Curia. Fraternity and the desire to dialogue were his first concrete words. Perhaps nothing in the Church will be as it was before. Our hope is that the pontificate of Francis, the Pope who ‘comes from the end of the world’ can mark the return to the Church-Word instead of the Church-Institution, promoting an open dialogue with the contemporary world, with believers and non-believers, following the springtime of Vatican II.”

    The Grand Lodge of Argentina certainly weren’t inclined to offer an alternative view on the new Pope. Argentinian Grand Master Angel Jorge Clavero said:

    “The Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons, an institution rooted in our country since 1857, salutes the naming of our co-patriot Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio as Pope Francis. A man of austere life consecrated to his devotions, the designation of the new pontiff of the Catholic Church supposes a great recognition of the Argentine Nation…In the name of all, the Grand Lodge of Argentina greets our co-patriot Cardinal who just received such a high world distinction.”

    I know a lot of water, or rather a tsunami, has flown under, over and around the bridge since then, but readers might be interested in the above. As much as anyone, the Pope doesn’t decide the opinions of others, but about the best that can be said, or hoped for, here is that the Lodge must have been much better informed about Cardinal Bergoglio than a lot of Cardinal electors. And this is trying to look on the “bright” side. Heaven help us. If such greater knowledge is not the case, the “smoke of satan” is most definitely inside the Church, and really is very black and very thick.

    Anyway, “harmless duffers” doesn’t quite seem right. Such modesty is unbecoming.

  12. With regard to the msm having a ‘dishonest agenda’, can we really expect otherwise when we consider the ‘powerful group of JINOs (Jewish in name only) who have a massive influence on what you will be watching on television today’? The editor of ‘Christian Order’ named them as David Elstein, Michael Grade, Charles Saatchi, Alan Yentob and Michael Green.

    See http://www.christianorder.com/editorials/editorials_2011/editorials_augsept11.html for further info.

  13. Pat McKay, I get your point but what I can’t understand is, why would these JINOs want to rally sympathy for a group of (mainly) Muslim migrants/refugees? What’s in it for them?

  14. Perhaps they’re dancing to the tune of a ‘higher authority’ – like the so-called ‘New World Order’ generals….

  15. The Hungarian Government is taking acts bordering on xenophobia, and in response to ill-Christian sentiment. It is unfortunate that an Hungarian Bishop chooses not to side with the marginalised, or is it that he has no freedom to do so?

    The Pope is speaking from the Heart, a heart formed by, and responsive to, The Gospel, and unfettered by any Government.

    The Pope may prove to have made a wrong call, but only time will tell, but he is non a xenophobe, or un-Christian, or shackled by his Government concerned with any future election.

    • DP,

      Just because the Hungarian Government, with the support of the Bishop, is standing alone, doesn’t make it wrong. Just because the Bishop is not gushingly and blindly following Papa Francis doesn’t make HIM wrong either. And if you think Pope Francis’s heart or mind is “formed by the Gospel” then you sure have not been paying attention.

      Nobody with half a brain can help but be concerned at what is going on here, with the massive numbers of people crossing Europe, with no checks, it seems, of any kind. I had an email from a French reader saying he’d heard on the radio over there that Scotland is pledged to take thousands of migrants – I just can’t wait for the reaction from the poor people I know who have spent ten years on the local authority housing list waiting for a home big enough to accommodate their growing families. This entire enterprise is ill-thought through, and a recipe for division and chaos in societies across Europe. Not, though, note, in Saudi Arabia. Interesting.

      How do we know there are no Jihadists among these migrants? Is such a thought legally actionable? Is it “racist”? “xenophobic”? “Islamophobic”? Or is it plain common sense? Am I even permitted to ask the question? Does anyone seriously think that Isis is sitting back watching this easy movement across Europe without seeing (and jumping at) the opportunity? I now await a visit from the Thought Police.

      The entire media campaign – by the admission of a number of commentators/presenters broadcasting in newsrooms in the UK – is based on a photograph. Sheer, undiluted, unintelligent, sentimentalism. Not good enough.

      You go along with the charade of “charity” if you wish. Pope Francis can go along with the same charade if he wishes (he does what he wants anyway, no matter the cost to the Church) but allow those few of us who refuse to go with the flow on this or anything else, to think for ourselves, without being bullied into line by name-calling; we are neither xenophobic nor un-Christian – and in any event, to pose a by now notorious question: just who are you to judge?

    • Having watched the violence on the BBC News just now, due to the border controls in Hungary, with the migrants firing rocks at the police, my gut feeling about the whole fiasco is now reinforced. In any other context, those violent people would be described as “thugs” – whereas the disapproval evident in the face of the news reporter seemed, to me at least, to be reserved solely for the Hungarian authorities.

      Then came the news, on local BBC Reporting Scotland, that Glasgow University is to provide scholarships for the refugees, and I found myself wondering how long it will be before the locals here are throwing rocks…

      Don’t misunderstand: I don’t begrudge anyone an education, and, being of that generation which benefited from the grant system at university level, I’m all for making sure that money is no bar to higher education. However, with indigenous students leaving university lumbered with huge loans, and many from poor families unable to pursue higher education due to the finance involved, I’m a tad concerned that the term “migrant crisis” may soon be replaced with “social crisis” as civil unrest, disorder, you name it, breaks out. I sincerely hope I’m wrong, but there is an urgent need for the Government and other institutions here to consider carefully how they are addressing this worrying mass movement of people into the countries of Europe. They must avoid this sentimental “heart” response and – as we say in Glasgow – keep the heid!

  16. One cannot however ignore the fact that the Hungarian police were firing water canon and tear gas at people including babies who were behind a fence! In the 1950 s we took in a lot of Hungarian refugees in this country. They have short memories it seems!

    • Christiana,

      The Hungarian police were firing water canon because the migrants were pulling down the border control. What were they to do? Fold their arms and say “oh well, in you come, anyway”?

      Law and order has to be maintained, and if the refugees are not admitted into a particular country, they have to accept that and not react with violence. It’s hard to swallow the story that they’re fleeing violence when they’re being violent themselves. Seeing young men with scarves over their faces, chucking rocks across the fence didn’t make me think of refugees, I can tell you.

      Nobody has short memories about refugees getting into this country after the war, but that was different from this massive number of people entering every country in Europe, without the infrastructure to support them. I find it intimidating just watching the hordes of people walking and running across the continent. What it would be like to witness that on our own streets, I cannot think. I am quite upfront – i wouldn’t like it and I don’t have a racist bone in my body.

  17. Nicky, I agree that some of the young men were being violent, maybe after they had been tear gassed? I don’t know, but the fact remains that there are many children there too. Their terror is horrible to see. A little boy the same age as my grandson was weeping with exhaustion on film yesterday…just what do we expect people who have walked for days to do? Just keep walking round Europe or return to the hell that is Syria? I have no idea what the solution is but there has to be something done soon.

      • Personally, I will never understand how the parents of these children could put them in such mortal danger. It’s one thing to flee a war torn country for a neighbouring one, but quite another to traverse half the globe to find a country of choice. There are many countries neighbouring Syria and Iraq that could afford even temporary shelter for refugees. Why isn’t that happening? Who is orchestrating this influx into Europe and for what end? Why can’t the governments of the West take decisive action in the region of conflict to stop this mass exodus? These are very pertinent questions that the authorities do not appear to want to address. Why?

        • Athanasius,

          And why, with so many young able-bodied men ready to go to battle with the Hungarian border patrol, did they choose NOT to go into battle in their own homeland to save it from terrorists and dictators?

        • “There are many countries neighbouring Syria and Iraq that could afford even temporary shelter for refugees. Why isn’t that happening? ”

          From what I’ve read and heard, these countries don’t want the refugees, despite them being fellow Muslims, because they would create an imbalance in the population and structure of these countries.

          “Who is orchestrating this influx into Europe and for what end? ”

          A very good question Athanasius. Since the very beginning of this influx of refugees I have wondered if there is some agenda in place – for destabilising Europe in order to set in motion the islamification of Europe?

          I sincerely hope I’m wrong.

        • Desperate people do desperate things.

          I can’t understand why they don’t go to Kosovo, which is a Muslim country currently under UN protection… and it is in Europe, if not the EU. At least it would be safe haven until they can go home, or be resettled somewhere else. Tear gassing babies is not the answer.

          • “Tear gassing babies is not the answer.”

            You should be working for one of the media outlets – that is first class journalese. Nobody set out to “gas babies” – as Athanasius has said elsewhere (although I paraphrase) the parents should not be endangering their children by dragging them half-way around the world to find their “country of choice”.

            Tell us, what should the border patrol have done, in order to keep the invaders out while, at the same time, keeping on the right side of political correctness?

              • Constantine,

                I saw that on the news. A young man went out of his way to pull the reporter over to see the baby.

                But I hadn’t realised that the Hungarian police had actually aimed at the baby.

                How do you know that?

                  • That’s what I thought. So it’s the parents to blame, not the people aiming the water and tear gas. The parents have responsibility for protecting their children, not the police whose job it is to protect the borders.

  18. I don’t know about anyone else but I find the whole situation terrifying.It is off course dreadful to see children in such a state however and I say this with all honesty from the news reports there definitely isn’t as many children as there is young men obviously you can’t see everyone .The first group will indeed arrive in Scotland within the next couple off days and where are these people to go because we are constantly being told there are no houses available so do they join the homeless on the streets off Glasgow slight exaggeration but you can understand the frustration.As I said above we really do not know who we are letting into the country and that’s the part that terrifies me the most.

    • Well said, Morgana, well said. Indeed we do not know WHO we are letting into our country. We are an island, why invite an unknown swarm?

  19. Morgana, we do know. We are letting Muslims in, and Muslims are bound by their ‘holy’ book (kissed by Popes) to convert the world for Allah. Europe is the immediate goal now, and the hordes that even the BBC can’t hide from us any longer are quite literally invading Europe. Muslims believe that non-Muslims or ‘unbelievers’ are kaffirs. As a kaffir, Morgana, you are an unclean, untrustworthy and deceitful sinner. You are the worst of creatures, a polluter and you justly deserve death. You may however convert to Islam by reciting a simple declaration (roughly ‘There is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his messenger’), or, failing this, you may accept dhimmitude. If you choose the latter you will pay tax as a sign of submission, you will be unable to build or repair places of worship, you will be unable to serve in the army or government and you will wear distinctive clothing. Failure to pay your tax will result in your being put to death or enslaved, and as an enslaved woman you may be legally raped.

    Don’t take my word for it – get yourself a copy of the Koran. There are plenty of English translations available from Amazon, but, just to be fair, get a translation approved by Muslim scholars – not just Arabic-speaking kaffirs who might be islamophobic and have an evil agenda.

    • Christina,

      Morgana said she finds the whole situation terrifying. On reading YOUR latest comment, I can only add “with bells on”…

      I’m nothing, if not original! 😀

    • I was saying in respect off whether they were true refugees .I know that they are Muslims and very well understand what the Muslim motive is so the Koran is not necessary this is why I find it truly terrifyingdespite the media trying their best to have us believe otherwise.

  20. I think that, to some extent, Governments of Western Europe see this migrant flow as an easy and opportune means to mitigate the self-inflicted demographic problems which have arisen thanks to 50 years of mass contraception and abortion.

    That there are likely issues surrounding social cohesion and national identity – thanks to the migrants belonging to a starkly different culture, religion (the main features of which are violence and intolerance) and value system – does not seem to concern them.

    After all they are not viewing the matter through the lens of conhesion and identity, but purely from a capitalist perspective. They want more and younger people here to work, to generate tax income. They do not really care who such people are, just as long as they can work. With the typical short-sightedness of politicians, they seek a quick and easy solution purely for the moment, they are not taking a long term view.

    And so it seems the age of nation states in europe, with a liner and coherent identity, religion and culture, is coming to an end. I wonder what the social cement of this new europe will be? In 1984, Orwell refers to the UK as “Airstrip One”, that is, rather than a nation state, the UK is really just an unsinkable aircraft carrier for the US. In what is playing out now, perhaps “Office Block One” or “Factory One” will be more appropriate.

    I think this is especially concerning, given that previous waves of muslim immigration to Europe have not been very succesful in terms of social integration – especially when compared with other immigrant groups, such as the Chinese for example. In the UK there are issues with muslims of pakistani ancestry, in France with muslims of North African ancestry and in Germany with muslims of turkish ancestry.

    It is interesting to note how starkly different the media coverage of the migration is, when compared to media coverage of immigration just 10-15 years ago, when the asylum system was being abused on a grand scale, and there was also much migration thanks to EU expansion. Then, the media and politicians were very cautious of large scale unchecked immigration and acknowledged that it should be controlled and must have limits.

    But now, it seems all caution has been thrown to the wind and there is no talk of how the situaiton might eventually be resolved.

    It is also strange to me that, the conflict in Syria has been onoing for years and yet only now this migration wave happens.

    I do think that the muslim states which fund ISIS wish to see a further islamisation of europe and they will be very satisfied to see what is occuring. However, Western Governments are also culpable in terms of the genesis of this mass migration, after all, it was they who destablisied the regimes which formerly kept a lid of Islamic extremism in Iraq, Syria, and Libya.

    As a result, these nations are now all failed states. While aspects of these regimes may not have been palatable by western standards, there were certainly moreso than ISIS. Its also strange that Western Governments were happy to depose Saddam Hussein via full scale military invasion, based on trumped up charges, yet will only dance on the periphery of the resultant ISIS problem even when the nature of that regime is clear for all to see.

    A glance around the muslim world shows that the only two types of Government which work consistently well are either Islamic Theocracies or secular dictatorships which are backed by the military. I wonder which type will eventually emerge from the ashes of Syria, Iraq and Libya?

    Finally, I think Hungary is getting an underserved bad press in all this. Formerly, when large groups of muslims appeared in that part of the world, it was with violent intent – and so Hungarys view is naturally coloured by their historical experience, not least because they were part of the Ottoman Empire for a period.

    • Gabriel Syme,

      That is a great post, very clear and to the point. I agree with your analysis totally.

      I find this whole thread very useful and refreshing as it is about the only place where I have read common sense and facts about this migrant influx into Europe which, like other bloggers, I have watched with increasing concern.

      I also think that Hungary is right to close its borders. The government spokesman called the hordes “an armed mob” and that’s what they looked like. Who wants such people entering their country? As Athanasius said, let them go to neighbouring Muslim countries, that makes much more sense than trekking halfway round the world to pick a country to settle in. That attitude suggests they are looking for a good standard of living, not safety.

  21. I agree, MM. It is salutary for me to read Gabriel Syme’s brilliant, clear and unemotional analysis. I’d give a lot to be less emotional about it all – it would certainly lower the BP.

  22. When the body of the little boy was washed ashore, and later those of his mother and brother, people rightly felt a great sense of sorrow and horror. They were fleeing from persecution in Syria only to die in a foreign land. But hold on.. the next thing we see is that the father took the bodies back to Syria for burial. That should have sent alarm bells ringing among politicians throughout Europe. Why, if you are fleeing a country for fear of your life, would you return to it to bury your family? This makes me wonder just how many are true refugees and how many are just chancers wanting to get into Europe. And while it is true that Muslim countries are not offering to take anyone, we have to be realistic and realise that, even if there were offers from Muslim countries, none of the “refugees” would want to go there because life would be too restrictive, especially in Saudi Arabia, and they would have more freedom locked up in Saughton or Barlinnie jails.

    Another matter of concern is the number of young men travelling on their own. Where are their families? Would any of us flee our country and leave our loved ones behind? No! and as some people have commented to me, “we don’t know who they are, they could be terrorists, posing as refugees, trying to get into Europe to cause harm.”

    One last thing, I notice that those who say that they are wiling to take these people into their houses haven’t bothered in the past to take in their own people who are sleeping in shop doorway and park benches.

  23. Maybe slightly off topic but did anyone else watch question time with Alec Salmond making reference to the fact that Our Lord was a refugee leaving Palestine for Egypt as if this could be any kind off comparison. He needs a serious reality check.

    • Morgana,

      Yes, I saw QT – and as well as Alex Salmond making a fool of himself, Tim Stanley, who poses as a [convert] “conservative” Catholic, lauded the legalisation of same-sex “marriage” and denied that Ireland had ever been “occupied” by Britain. Honestly, you couldn’t make this stuff up.

      Salmond listed celebrities from “refugees stock” (sure fire way to get a round of applause) – someone ALWAYS does provide a list on QT and it gets to be so predictable and so ridiculous that I just yawn or laugh or both (no, wait… can’t do both!)

      I wish they’d ban applause on that programme. It is so distracting and just about every question and every answer is applauded. I keep saying I’m going to stop watching it but then it’s like my attitude to the dodgems when I was a child: I didn’t want to go on them, but I couldn’t resist the thrill of it all! In the case of QT, I can’t resist watching if only to say “it’s a joke!”

    • I remain sympathetic to the refugees, especially the children and the disabled.

      However, before the referendum, the SNP issued a White Paper (a huge tome that sat in my local library for months) which included proposals to build a city the size of Dundee every five years to accommodate migrants. This plan was highlighted by the Prime Minister of Sweden, who had actually read the document.

      • Constantine,

        I’m sure we’re all sympathetic to genuine refugees. “Sympathy” is not the issue. I won’t go over everything again, but that is very interesting indeed about the SNP promising to build a city the size of Dundee every five years to accommodate migrants. Even more interesting, the fact that the PM of Sweden has read the document when I’d wager that very few Scots have done so – and that includes MSP’s! And that includes SNP MSP’s!

        So, thank you for that information. Very interesting indeed.

  24. Madame Editor,

    I have been reading through all the comments posted to this thread and it is clear that a planned invasion of Europe is taking place. It is not difficult to comprehend that these fervent young Muslim men will make mincemeat of the lukewarm Christians, in so far as there are any left, and that the majority will simply accept the choice of becoming Muslim or else. After all, their “anything goes” attitude has led to acceptance of same sex marriage, so why make a fuss about embracing Islam?

    They have simply never had a decent formation as to why they should declare for the Kingship of Christ and provide firm opposition to the Islamisation of their of their homelands.

    I predict great civil unrest when the penny drops, and they notice how they have become second class citizens in their own cities, queueing for services and vacant houses for twice the length of time due to the influx of newcomers, and tasting the results of their apathy and spoiled voting papers at ballot boxes in the face of highly organised voting by the newcomers for their preferred candidates, who will see to it that laws preferential to Islam come into being, and that appointments in Local Authorities and National Government of candidates with Islamic sympathies are made.

    The situation is getting so bad that I think there is little doubt that the Great Chastisement is very close. Fr. Karl Stehlin, reviver of Militia Immaculatae, leaves little doubt in his eighth Newsletter on the following link that it will occur in less than eighteen month’s time – in 2017.

    For those who are feeling afraid about the future, it is a letter worth reading:

    http://archivist2017.webspace.virginmedia.com/

    And for those who are asking: “What can we do in the face of such apathy by our fellow men?”, the answer is to wear the brown scapular, pray the Rosary, distribute Miraculous medals.

    • Leprechaun,

      Great post – and thank you for that link to the Knights of the Immaculatae, always an edifying read. I’ve not managed to read the whole page yet but it’s right at the top of my list of things to do once I get the October edition off to the printers.

      Thanks, too, for reminding us of the power of the named sacramentals. God bless you for it – and He will !

  25. “…. and tasting the results of their apathy and spoiled voting papers at ballot boxes in the face of highly organised voting by the newcomers for their preferred candidates, who will see to it that laws preferential to Islam come into being, and that appointments in Local Authorities and National Government of candidates with Islamic sympathies are made.”

    Well said. Leprechaun, well said indeed.

    • Olaf,

      There is nothing “apathetic” about spoiling ballot papers when the choice is to vote for this party in favour of abortion/same-sex marriage or that party in favour of same… Nothing apathetic at all, given that those of us who did, made clear on our ballot papers – read by each of the candidates – that we cannot vote for pagan politicians. Those who can do so, in conscience, feel free, just don’t tell the rest of us that we are “apathetic” for refusing so to do.

      One of the first party leaders to exhort the government to take thousands of migrants during the present crisis, is the very leader supposedly in favour of putting an end to the open borders policy.

      Leprechaun’s exhortation to us to wear our scapulars and medals, pray our rosary etc. was “well said”. Any suggestion that there is a political solution to this crisis is naïve at best, and entails believing the (empty) rhetoric of one party leader or another.

      There’s some interesting news coming from the USA – something tells me Ben Carson is about to have a very hard time in the media! Click here to read all about it…

  26. With all this going on, I wonder if anyone else thought that the pastoral letter for Home Mission Sunday which was read in English churches this morning was absolutely inept, bland and un stimulating? A sort of corporation speak, “let’s all be nice to each other” message! Is there any fire or passion in our hierarchy I wonder!

  27. Christiana

    It is no exaggeration to state that whatever “fire and passion” our hierarchy has, and it’s not much, is reserved exclusively for the combatting of anything that remotely smacks of Traditional Catholicism. Harsh perhaps, but absolutely true.

  28. To emigrate in the cause of Allah – that is, to move to a new land in order to bring Islam there, is considered in Islam to be a highly meritorious act. “And whoever emigrates for the cause of Allah will find on the earth many locations and abundance,” says the Qur’an. “.
    The media and globalist propaganda machines are working overtime in an attempt to sell the invasion of Europe as a humanitarian crisis circling hungry women and children fleeing Syria. But here’s the problem, only half of the hundreds of thousands storming Europe are from Syria. And here’s the real whopper of the story. Nearly 75% of those flooding Europe are men.

    • Anne,

      I’m SO jealous! Your photo has now overtaken Helen’s photo, (depicting her youth and beauty, which bears a striking resemblance to Marilyn Munro, but you didn’t hear that from me 😀 )

      Seriously, thank you for that very illuminating comment. What you say (and cite from the Qur’an) is confirmed, it seems to me, by the fact that while Saudi Arabia won’t take any refugees, the authorities there are willing to build 200 mosques across Germany to cater for the influx. Click here to read more

      And still the useful idiots (by the truckload) will continue, as you indicate, to blether on about a “humanitarian crisis”.

      Gimme strength!

      • I know many go on about Saudi and most of it is justified, but a great many people never return home after Hadj, they just stay in the country afterwards.

  29. Constantine

    I assume you can point us to a reliable source for confirmation of that claim? It seems a little far fetched to me.

    • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_in_Saudi_Arabia

      Ed: it is always a mistake to post links without any comment. They either go into moderation, or more usually, SPAM so may be automatically deleted. I’ve just found this one – hours after posting, so please take a minute to write a comment, preferably explaining the point of the link. It certainly doesn’t offer evidence of large numbers staying after the Hajj: it refers to “any Hajji or illegal over stayers are met with a mandatory prison sentence followed by swift deportation” There’s more than a little concern about the invasion of Europe, not just “any” (implication “few”) refugees going into Europe…

    • And, Constantine, have you any comment to make on Anne Smith’s post? You come over as something of an apologist for a monstrous and terrifying religion, and I would really like to know if you have read its ‘holy book’, in which every Muslim is steeped almost from infancy. I think it is absolutely essential reading for anyone who voices strong opinions, in either direction, about Islam. As Leprechaun said, Europe is being invaded, and everything being reported and shown in the media points inexorably to that fact, no matter what spin useful idiots put on it for the consumption of the gullible masses.

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