Pope Ignores Medjugorje

visionariesmedjugorjesSarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina, May 22, 2015 / 03:17 pm (CNA).

Pope Francis’ one-day trip to Bosnia and Herzegovina this June will not include a visit to Medjugorje, the location of controversial alleged Marian apparitions, according to a coordinator of the visit.

Monsignor Ivo Tomasevic, communications officer for the papal trip, confirmed to CNA May 22 that the Pope is only going to Sarajevo on June 6, and not the southern town near the Croatian border where six people claim to have seen apparitions of the Virgin Mary.

Msgr. Tomasevic could not confirm whether any visionaries would be at the papal Mass, but he said any delegation from Medjugorje would be treated like any other parish delegation.

He stressed that Medjugorje is “one of the parishes of the Diocese of Mostar-Duvno, and its faithful will take part in the celebration like faithful of the other parishes of the area, with an equal number of places assigned.”

Enzo Manes, the editor of the Magazine “Medjugorje, the presence of Mary,” told CNA May 21 that he has been informed that “some of the visionaries will take part in the Mass.”

He predicted a “strong” presence from Medjugorje. The alleged apparitions originally began June 24, 1981, when six children in Medjugorje began to experience phenomena which they have claimed to be apparitions of the Blessed Virgin Mary. According to these six “seers,” the apparitions contained a message of peace for the world, a call to conversion, prayer and fasting, as well as certain secrets surrounding events to be fulfilled in the future. These apparitions are said to have continued almost daily since their first occurrence, with three of the original six children – who are now young adults – continuing to receive apparitions every afternoon because not all of the “secrets” intended for them have been revealed.

Since their beginning, the alleged apparitions have been a source of both controversy and conversion, with many flocking to the city for pilgrimage and prayer, and some claiming to have experienced miracles at the site, while many others claim the visions are non-credible.  

In April 1991, the bishops of the former Yugoslavia determined that “on the basis of the research that has been done, it is not possible to state that there were apparitions or supernatural revelations.” On the basis of those findings the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith directed in October 2013 that clerics and the faithful “are not permitted to participate in meetings, conferences or public celebrations during which the credibility of such ‘apparitions’ would be taken for granted.”

In January 2014, a Vatican commission completed an investigation into the supposed apparitions’ doctrinal and disciplinary aspects, and was to have submitted its findings to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.   A source within the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith told CNA May 19 that “the conclusions have not been discussed yet at the congregation, neither in a special meeting nor in a regular meeting.”   Once the congregation analyzes the commission’s conclusions and finalizes a document on the phenomena, the Bishop of Rome will be able to make a final decision.  

Speculations about the possible conclusions of the commission led some local residents to think that the Pope might visit the shrine during his one-day trip to Bosnia and Herzegovina. However, Cardinal Vinko Puljic of Sarajevo, a member of the commission which investigated the apparition, completely dismissed this possibility. Cardinal Puljic told a May 13 press conference in Sarajevo that the Pope’s visit to Sarajevo “has nothing to do with Medjugorje” and its alleged apparitions.   Regarding the investigating commission, Cardinal Puljic stressed: “I cannot speak about it, as I was part of it and I am bound to secrecy.” According to CNA’s source in the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, the Vatican’s caution around the supposed apparitions is also due to “the exceptional nature of the apparitions.” “It was never the case in history that the Virgin Mary appeared so continuously and so constantly over the years,” he said, noting that “the tradition of Marian apparitions show that they are limited to a given period in the life of any visionary.”  Source

Comment:

Looks like the Medjugorje lobby is planning to take their (not Our Lady’s!) message to the papal venue, perhaps creating the impression that they are part of the formal event.  In any case, shouldn’t the Pope take this opportunity to announce the verdict of the Medjugorje Commission? 

46 responses

  1. There is a real risk of the Pope coming to serious harm if he declared against the authenticity of Medjugorje while still in the country. Medjugorje is run by gangsters and some pretty shady characters. If you think I’m exaggerating, read E Michael Jones’ book: “The Medjugorje Deception: Queen of Peace, Ethnic Cleansing, Ruined Lives”. Available here:- http://www.culturewars.com/medj.htm

    • You seem to ignore that (1) “there is NO possibility for the Pope to Discuss the Veracity or not of ANY apparition while the Apparition is still taking place” — that is the rule of the Catholic Church; (2) “A tree is judged by its fruit” AND “there are more Confessions and Concelebrations of priests; Bishops and Cardinals in Medjugorje than in Fatima and Lourdes put together” — the reason why the Pope makes the trip : “to meet with all the Bishops of B-H and find a solution for Medjugorje” said he when his trip was first announced! Also the file sent to the Vatican had reports of more than 600 declared vocations to the point that Cardinal Shoenbrun (?sp) of Vienna said that “would Medjugorje close he would have to close his FULL seminar” — and more than 500 Miracles recognized by MDs! Pope JPII said that “would he not be the Pope he would be in Medjugorje” and that “he was daily praying for Medjugorje” — that Communists (and free massons who invaded them) do not succeed in destroying it as they tried during the 1991-1995 war yet NOT ONE BOMB FELL ON MEDJUGORJE OR AROUND IT
      (3) Also remember Pope Urban VIII said: “In matter of Private Revelations it is better to believe than not to believe because if you believed and the Apparitions were true you receive GREAT GRACES but if you believed and the Apparitions were not true you STILL receive GREAT GRACES as if they had been true!”
      Why are you reading the one book written by a servant of the enemy ?
      PLEASE DO COME TO MEDJUGORJE AND OPEN YOUR HEART TO OUR LADY: I LIVE THERE SINCE 2006 when I landed from the US with a sick son; He was healed in 2008 and went back to the US but Gospa kept me in Medjugorje — asking me to sell a family apartment so I could purchase on Apparition Hill a convent bankrupt with debts; rehabilitate it and enlarge it “to start Lourdes in Medjugorje” when we have an elevator; “PADRE PIO DELLA COMPASSIONE”!
      Come and visit us: there is plenty more to hear and see and be HAPPY IN PEACE only God can provide! God Bless and Gospa save us all! PRAY THE ROSARY!

      • Denyse,

        You are very wrong about Medjugorje on so many fronts.

        First of all the Pope has full authority to declare on Medjugorje whenever he decides to do so, whether or not the so-called apparitions are still going on. He is the Supreme Pontiff of the Church and as such is the final arbiter in all matters touching on the Faith, including apparitions. Perhaps you should re-visit that “rule” you speak of because I think you’ve misunderstood it. You may also wish to provide us here with a reference to this rule. I for one have never heard of it.

        As regards Cardinal Schönborn of Vienna, I think the least said about that ‘balloon-Mass’ prelate the better. If memory serves, the bishop of Bosnia Herzegovina made a very public protest about this Cardinal daring to enter his diocese to promote Medjugorje without his permission. The bishop of course had already declared that nothing supernatural is occurring at Medjugorje, so Cardinal Schönborn was well out of order stepping into his territory with permission to say the opposite.

        If there are vocations resulting from Medjugorje it is only because God always brings good from evil. The Bishops of Bosnia have examined the case of these so-called apparitions very thoroughly on several occasions and have concluded that there is nothing supernatural in them. Indeed, it is on record that one of the “seers” lied under oath during formal investigations, a sure sign that these are not genuine apparitions. Hence any Catholic who continues to go Medjugorje and promote it is actually calling the bishops liars and disobeying them. There is no way that God is the author of so rebellious a spirit.

        Let’s not forget the Franciscan scandals surrounding the promotion of Medjugorje, well documented and testifying that something is seriously amiss at that place.

        Without labouring the point, let me conclude by saying that it is the greatest of insults to the blessed Mother of God to maintain that, contrary to the evidence of established Marian apparitions of the past, she has found it necessary to reveal consistent (frequently bland, occasionally heretical) daily messages for decades, amounting today to some 40,000 locutions.

        Get a grip Denyse, those seers are a bunch of frauds who would never have pulled this kind of stunt when the Church was healthy, before Vatican II. Nor would the Catholic hierarchy have allowed the faithful to disobey the lawful authorities of the region by continuing to frequent that place having been informed officially that it is NOT SUPERNATURAL

        Pope Francis is trying to let you all down gently, that’s why he spoke of finding “a solution”. The Pope already knows the outcome of the Vatican investigation but understands perfectly that the fanatics will not obey.

        John Paul II gave the place a miss when he was in Bosnia and now Francis is set to do the same.

      • Denyse,

        I think you might find one of our previous discussions on Medjugorje of interest, although I’m afraid I have always found that those who believe it already, without the blessing of the Church, won’t be budged in their conviction. Not a good sign. Click here to read our previous thread.

        I suggest you check out the videos on the above link and read the comments.

        The readiness of the “seers” to take money for their “services” should be proof positive enough for anyone with a truly Catholic spirit of faith and obedience, that these alleged visions are false. When a pilgrim handed St Bernadette’s little brother a soft toy, the saint took it from him, handed it back and said that they didn’t accept gifts, thank you very much. THAT’S a very good sign. Anything less places a question mark over the claim of supernatural occurrences. Who would try to make money or accept material gifts, on the basis that they’d seen and spoken with Our Lady? Unthinkable.

      • Denyse,

        A little reality check. 1) When has Our Lady ever appeared to anyone with such regularity over the course of decades? 2) Which seer who was privileged to see Our Lady was ever content to return to the world, live fully in the public eye and worse, make money off the apparitions?

        The sensationalism that marks the Medjugorje apparitions should send off warning signals loud and clear.

  2. Westminster Fly,

    That is very scary indeed, to think Medjugorje is run by gangsters, but I wouldn’t be surprised and I will read Michael Jones’ book asap.

    I’m really pleased that the Pope won’t be going there, though, as nothing he does ever surprises me any more and I was half expecting him to go there just to please the dissenters who support it.

    • Never heard the extra large Province of Franciscans of Bosnia-Hercegovina that runs the Parish St James of Medjugorje were “gangsters” : only a sure enemy of the Catholic Church — a freemason for instance anxious to DISCREDIT Medjugorje — could make such an assertion without proof of any kind!
      .
      For in other times when the country was occupied (during 500 years ?) by the Turks, was not it thanks to the Franscicans playing “maternal uncle of the family” to each and everyone of the families, travelling from one to the other, that the country mostly remainded Catholic with Sacraments distributed after dinner once children were sound asleep so nobody be denounced to the Turks who had closed all churches after their arrival ))?
      For me it remains a miracle of STRONG FAITH that thanks to the Franciscans after such a lengthy occupation the population would still be praying Our Lady and receiving the Sacrements: even Poland — occupied for 300 years — was allowed to keep its clergy and churches!

      So stop beleiving every work of the enemy and come and VISIT MEDJUGORJE that has “more yearly CONFESSIONS and MASS CONCELEBRATED BY MORE PRIESTS. BISHOPS AND CARDINALS even than Lourdes and Fatima put together ” — the reason the Pope comes “to meet the Bishops of B-H and find a solution for Medjugorje”…
      (Not to be approved or disapproved since Our Lady is STILL appearing and “the Church cannot pronounce any judgement until the Apparitions have completely stopped” — this an ever practice of the Church , “for fear the enemy would spoil the remaining Apparitions” I have heard!)

      • Denyse,

        Never mind the conspiracy stuff, listen to the bishops of the region. None of the bishops have found in favour of Medjugorje, and these represent the lawful authority appointed by God to declare in such matters. You contradict them upon the peril of your soul!

        Do you have any idea of how clever the devil is when it comes to seducing gullible souls into following apparitions and messages staged by him? Forget your unqualified opinion in this matter, obedience to the Church is the prudent, Catholic and essential response you should be making to Medjugorje.

      • “Never heard the extra large Province of Franciscans of Bosnia-Hercegovina that runs the Parish St James of Medjugorje were “gangsters” : only a sure enemy of the Catholic Church — a freemason for instance anxious to DISCREDIT Medjugorje — could make such an assertion without proof of any kind!”

        I’m sorry that you brand me a ‘sure enemy of the Catholic Church’ which is rash judgement, and a sin, but this shows how you are being led astray, and how ridiculous your position is. You place adherence to an alleged private revelation over membership of the Church. Just for the record – one can be a Catholic in good standing with the Church without believing in any and every alleged private revelation. You need to take that on board.

        The proof which you request, my dear, is in E Michael Jones’ book so READ IT. Sorry to “SHOUT” but you seem to be rather fond of that in your posts . . .

        If you couldn’t be bothered to READ IT – and I know you won’t because those caught in spiritual addiction to such things point blank refuse to deal with any evidence which contradicts their beliefs, you could at least check out Diane Korzienewski’s excellent website:- http://medjugorjedocuments.blogspot.co.uk Scroll down and there is reams of HARD EVIDENCE – from the Holy See and the Bishop – about the disobedience of the Franciscans in Bosnia-Hercegovina.

        • Also I wanted to add – having read Denyse’s first comment more carefully now – by her own admission she has made a large financial, and therefore probably emotional, investment in Medjugorje, so she can no longer look at this matter objectively. Of course she will defend it. She has tied a lot of money up in it – possibly her entire livelihood and future now depends on it. This is how the devil ensnares people.

          • WF,

            I, too, noticed that Denyse by her own admission… has made a large financial, and therefore probably emotional, investment in Medjugorje , which would place her in a most uncomfortable position were she to look at the facts presented on this blog. I thought this sort of thing only happened with TV evangelists who have no qualms about cleaning out the life-savings of the gullible. I am not surprised to hear this happening at Medjugorje, though.

  3. The entire business is a scandal to Catholic souls. The Popes should have acted immediately upon the negative judgment of the local ordinaries and shut Medjugorje down decades ago. I hope Pope Francis has the strength of character to finally put this money-spinning racket out of action.

    • I don’t think he will. I think everyone is entitled to a bucket-full of Mercy, including those in ‘Full Communion’, those ‘Not-in Communion” and those in ‘Full-Estrangement.’ That extends to bogus mafioso manifestations.

      Only those Not in “Full’ Communion are treated like plague victims.

  4. I remain dubitative!
    I cannot trust the Authorities nor those around them; they have been deceiving us for far too long!
    I think that it would have been very serious that the Pope even plans to visit on pilgrimage to Medjugorje…

  5. I have been dumbstruck for years at the cheek of Ivan in particular, making a mint out of the Medjugorje hoax. He even said on TV that he didn’t think Our Lady minded him making money as he had a family to keep. I was disappointed that the interviewer didn’t ask him if he’d checked with Our Lady personally!

    This is one of many reports about Ivan on the internet. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/markshea/2015/03/ivan-dragicevic-medjugorje-visionary-thumbs-his-nose-at-the-cdf.html

    • Well, nobody could mistake this thread for a lively buzzing discussion, could they?

      Michaela,

      I, too, am very interested in Ivan’s financial interest in Medjugorje. Click here to read a single page, which alone discredits the entire Medjugorje enterprise.

      • That’s an eye-opener about Ivan, although I think I remember that interview on the BBC news. He has some nerve. Nobody making money out of alleged visions is to be trusted one bit.

  6. Paris, 26 April 2013 18h52
    “the Ordinary, empowered to decide, gave utterance to his decision against the phenomenon categorically and also the Blessed Virgin cannot talk nonsense nor stir up trouble among the clergy and the faithful and even less leave a band of fanatics jostling her; in addition, it is absolutely unthinkable that the Blessed Virgin, the true one, may be a “factor of division into the Church” in urging the clergy and the faithful to disobey the successive bishops of Mostar-Duvno. This argument is, in my opinion, the most determinant to expose this sham.
    Moreover, it is unacceptable that a cardinal, namely the Archbishop of Vienna, panders to this diabolical game”, therefore Medjugorje is nothing but a sham that ridicules the Church.
    I find it insulting to Our Lady that some people dare consider that She can behave in a manner as ordinary and absurd.

    • Lionel,

      I agree with you 100%. The disobedience to the local bishop is the real giveaway, and it is disgraceful that they pretend Our Lady has encouraged that. No way is this a genuine apparition.

    • Lionel,

      I, too, agree with you – but 200%!

      The shocking statements these “seers” have put into the mouth of Our Lady leave me in absolutely no doubt that it is a hoax, or, at least, if they are seeing something, it’s of diabolical, not heavenly, origin.

  7. As Vatican guidelines say that no cleric should organise, or promote, pilgrimages to the place it is hardly world news that The Pope has no plans to go there! It would, however, be sensational if he did travel there.

    • Irish Eyes,

      Since when did Pope Francis let a li’l ole rule get in the way of doing what he wants? Heavens, if he can dispense with “judging” those living in manifest public sin, a wee trip off the beaten track to a hoax shrine wouldn’t bother him, not if it makes him popular with … somebody….

      Let’s just hope his geography is as bad as mine, and he doesn’t realise he’s visiting near the place. This is one of those rare occasions when (his) ignorance would definitely be (our) bliss.

    • Westminster Fly,

      That’s great news – it’s clear from that paragraph that the Bishop is not a Medjugorje believer. Deo gratias!

    • More great news! I hope all this is a preparation for the announcement from the Vatican commission that Medjugorje is not true. The sooner they make public their decision, the better.

    • I hope I am proved wrong, but I very much suspect any ‘announcement’ will be a fudge/compromise, as the Vatican has done with other false apostolates/phenomena (Legionaries of Christ, Opus Angelorum/Gabrielle Bitterlich etc). Cardinal Ratzinger once spoke of separating the ‘roots from the fruits’ – or words to that effect – which is something that I think you cannot do. If something is false at the core, whatever comes from it will ultimately be tainted.

  8. I am far from being a specialist in the phenomenon of Medjugorje, or in any other private revelation, for that matter, but it does not seem to fit the pattern of other confirmed Marian apparitions, e.g. Lourdes and Fatima. Unless I am mistaken, Our Lady is held to have been appearing at Medjugorje since 1981, which would make the apparitions over eleven times longer than the public ministry of Our Lord. This, to me, is contrary to the very logic of faith itself and does not testify in favour of the authenticity of the apparitions.

    Like others here, I have never been overly impressed by the messages attributed to Our Lady at Medjugorje. Years ago there was a volume of them doing the rounds, and most of them seemed me to be banal in the extreme. I remember reproaching myself at the time for my impiety, but now I think I got it right. In religion, as in much else, if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. And then there is the question of the lifestyle of the “seers”, and I don’t mean money. In my humble opinion, the fact that all but one of them have married testifies against the authenticity of the phenomenon. Surely to see the Mother of God would place one in an advanced state of expectation of the coming of the Kingdom which is the vocation to the religious life in a nutshell. So it was for Bernadette, and so it was for Sister Lucia.

    A personal note, for what it is worth. For years I was very friendly with an Italian family in Rome. The family had two elderly maiden aunts, both extremely good, faithful Catholics who had been brought up since childhood on daily Mass and continued this practice as far as possible through ill health and old age until their respective deaths. I remember one of them telling me how she had been at the Gemelli hospital in Rome for an outpatient visit, or some such, when one of the female Medjugorge “seers” arrived. (This would be, I think, sometime in the late 1990s.) I asked her what it was like. “Like when your Queen Mother visits a hospital,” was her only reply. Now, spoken by anyone else, maybe I wouldn’t have given excessive weight to such disdain, but expressed by this old lady, who was a great saint in her own quiet way, it was a judgment which admitted of no appeal.

    • Prognosticum,

      the fact that all but one of them have married testifies against the authenticity of the phenomenon. Surely to see the Mother of God would place one in an advanced state of expectation of the coming of the Kingdom which is the vocation to the religious life in a nutshell. So it was for Bernadette, and so it was for Sister Lucia Absolutely true! I’ve always thought that, too 😀

  9. Michael Jones is very reliable..he has made a very good study of the SSPX.

    • WF,

      Many thanks for reminding us that Michael Jones is very good on Medjugorje but not so on the SSPX – that link makes interesting reading, not least because the wonderful editor of Catholic Truth is quoted. Memories are made of this! And it is very good that you have undercut RIW’s attempt to take us off topic.

      However, Medjugorje is the thread topic, so bloggers, do not comment on the red-herring posted by RIW. Please and thank you…

  10. If Our Lady were appearing on a daily basis it would be fitting for our times. We live in a world saturated by daily news feeds, 24 hour TV and Internet. blogs, social media, ‘quick-fix-to everything’. In the world at this time, peace and stillness are rare. The earlier comment about occasional heresy in any reported messages is totally inaccurate. The Vatican can and would immediately pass a verdict on Medjugorje if any heresy were to be included in any message. It is precisely because the alleged messages are rooted in fasting (rare amongst many), regular confession (rare amongst many), daily mass (rare amongst many), reading scripture and adoration (rare amongst many) that the Church has not yet found heresy.

    It stands to reason that the unique nature of the alleged apparitions could be because this is what is necessary for our time.

    Believing in Medjugorje and the counter argument neither confirm or rule out a persons state of grace before God. A sinner can turn to grace and a pure soul can fall into sin. Medjugorje, Lourdes etc. will never alter the fact that we are all sinners requiring Gods mercy. For me, prayer, fasting, confession, Mass and adoration are the weapons we need, whether apparitions are taking place or not.

    What we need more than a debate on Medjugorje is discussion around the fact that so many of the faithful and our Priests shy away from fasting, confession, adoration etc. It would be ironic if Medjugorje were false when the messages emanating from Medjugorje are all too often more in keeping with a close personal relationship with Jesus than a large amount of the formation afforded to us at our local parish (I am not claiming every parish/priest/congregation is in this boat, but we all know there are too many parishes in need of renewal).

    I have visited on a few occasions. What I have experienced on a personal level has been spiritually rewarding. Vast queues for confession and daily adoration are what I witnessed. Whether or not Our Lady is appearing is a matter for the Church to pass judgement on at the correct time (even a forthcoming statement is not a final judgement until either heresy is stated in an alleged message or the alleged apparitions stop).

    What is not debatable is the presence of God in the sacraments and many more are attending confession and returning to God on a daily basis in Medjugorje than can be found in the parishes of our country.

    My final point would be that the Medjugorje visionaries have entrusted to a priest a message for the world to be revealed at a time decreed by Our Lady (allegedly). For this reason, its source will be tangible at some point in the not too distant future.

    • StriveForTruth

      Clearly, you are a genuine devotee of Medjugorje, but there is some indication in your comment that – unusually for adherents of Medjugorje – you are open minded about the truth or otherwise of the phenomenon. That is good and indicates that perhaps, with some discussion here, you will come to recognise that there are, indeed, heresies in the Medjugorje “messages”.

      I say that because I was very surprised to read your denial of any heresies, on the grounds that “the Vatican” would have immediately passed verdict on Medjugorje, had there been any heresies. Unfortunately, heresies abound in the Church today – and not just in the Medjugorje “messages” – and the heretics are allowed free rein. That dereliction of papal and episcopal duty is one aspect of the major crisis in the Church today – a crisis worse than any that have gone before.

      I’ll link to a previous blog thread we ran on the very subject of the heresies associated with Medjugorje (see end of this paragraph). As you will see, the discussion is sparked by one of Michael Voris’s videos. I am not remotely a Voris fan, and unsubscribed from his emailing list, so I do not receive his videos myself any longer. This one, however, stands alone since it is merely giving the facts as they are publicly available about the claims of the seers in regard to statements which they claim were made by Our Lady. Click here to see the film and to read the comments on that thread.

      I’ll be interested to read your thoughts on the video and subsequent comments.

  11. Strive for Truth
    You wrote: “even a forthcoming statement is not a final judgement until either heresy is stated in an alleged message or the alleged apparitions stop”. This is incorrect. There have been continual negative ecclesiastical judgments about Medjugorje from the beginning (which have almost always been ignored by the enthusiasts) and there doesn’t have to be heresy in the messages (although there is), nor the alleged apparitions end, for a further negative judgement to be given. There are many reasons, laid down by the Church in the document NORMS REGARDING THE MANNER OF PROCEEDING IN THE DISCERNMENT OF PRESUMED APPARITIONS OR REVELATIONS http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19780225_norme-apparizioni_en.html. One of them is ‘Evidence of a search for profit or gain strictly connected to the fact’ by the alleged seers, and there is PLENTY of evidence in the case of Medjugorje, of the alleged seers profiting beyond their wildest dreams. See Marco Corvaglia’s site for hard evidence:- http://www.marcocorvaglia.com/medjugorje-en/the-seers-and-an-unescapable-conflict-of-interests.html and http://www.marcocorvaglia.com/medjugorje-en/about-an-inquiry-on-ivan.html

    • WF,

      That’s great news – I hope they get on and make the decision public without any more delay. It’s dragged on far too long.

  12. I will read and research the various links and comments when I have a chance. I do agree that there are big issues in the Church in general. My own interpretation of where Medjugorje is heading is that it will at first be dismissed, I have said so for a long time. I have a feeling it is precisely because of the state of some areas of the Church that Medjugorje will be dismissed. The message of prayer, confession and fasting (in particular confession and fasting) do not resonate well with many in our Church. What I can’t escape are the fruits I know of from Medjugorje. Mary’s Meals, three vocations I know of personally, many people returning to confession.

    On a purely logical level, for six young children to sustain a lie in a Communist regime and to maintain that line for over thirty years is not possible.

    That means that for me it is a clear call between the hand of God and the work of Satan. For the later to be true we would need to be witnessing demons casting out demons (based on what I saw with my own eyes in relation to hour after hour of confessions, adoration, prayer).

    I am also open to the possibility that the apparitions could be true while one of the alleged seers is not sincere. Judas is the precedent here. He spent time in prayer with Jesus, he betrayed Jesus. By dismissing alleged apparitions and messages on account of the conduct of an alleged seer would, on a very basic level be like dismissing Peter because of Judas.

    I’ll take a look though, I do not base my faith on Medjugorje but to this point I am more inclined to believe than not to.

    I’ll be back in touch!

  13. StriveForTruth

    The fact that Medjugorje has spawned organisations like Mary’s Meals means absolutely nothing. Even adherents of false religions form organisations to feed the poor. The vocations and the sacraments means nothing either. Look at the many, many vocations to the Legionaries of Christ, and all the fervour of the clergy and laity in that organisation – yet it was founded on a monstrous falsehood by a perverted individual who fooled everyone – including Popes – for far more years than Medjugorje has been running – and on a global basis.
    A lady named Diane Korzienewski was a Medjugorje adherent for many years until she realised it was subtly leading her into a position of disobedience to legitimate ecclesiastical authority, which is what the devil wants because it utterly negates any so-called ‘good’ that might be done in the way of prayer and penance – which can often be based on pride.
    Please check out her website on Medjugorje http://medjugorjedocuments.blogspot.co.uk which is a mine of good information – mostly from official sources – and contains very revealing historical background on the disobedient Franciscan problem in the region which has largely fuelled the whole Medjugorje phenomenon. God bless you and continue striving for truth, as we all must!

    • WF,

      They say nothing’s perfect in this world, but your answer definitely is the perfect answer to those who use the “good fruits” – supposed vocations etc.- as evidence of the truth of Medjugorje or any other alleged apparitions. As the Bishop of Mostar said, if long queues for confessions is evidence of the truth of the apparitions, then Our Lady must be appearing in every parish in the diocese!

      • I agree – Westminster Fly has said everything that needs to be said there.

        Diane Korzienewski’s website is excellent, and she knows what she’s talking about, having been a devout follower of Medjugorje herself, before she realised it was not true.

        The disobedience to the bishop is the sure sign that it’s not authentic, because even when the bishop is wrong, as it past apparitions they sometimes were at first, not believing, Our Lady never told the visionary to disobey, always to obey. Even the priest, for example, when he didn’t believe Bernadette, Our Lady said he would come to realise the truth but to obey him. That’s all I needed to know about Medjugorje to know it was false, that they claimed Our Lady criticised the bishop. No way would she do that.

  14. According to Rorate Caeli:

    Numerous Italian journalists are reporting the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) has concluded there is nothing supernatural happening at Medjugorje and will pass along their conclusion to Pope Francis. The reports also say, while the CDF will “recommend” pastors do not take the faithful to Medjugorje claiming that the visions of the fake “seers” are real, they will recognize it as a “special place of prayer” and will not ban pilgrimages as long as they don’t claim something supernatural is happening.

    http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2015/06/cdf-reportedly-confirms-medjugorje-to.html#more

    I hope these conclusions are broadcast loud, clearly and unequivocally.

    However, it would be better if people did not visit Medjugorje at all; after all if “nothing supernatural” is happening, then why exactly should it be regarded as a “special place of prayer” and pilgrimage site?

    • Gabriel Syme,

      We’ve been discussing this over on the General Discussion thread – I must have forgotten to close this May thread ! Poor Gabriel! I’m usually pointing you to a topic thread FROM the GD thread – you’ll be thinking you can’t do right for doing wrong! 😀

      Westminster Fly alerted us to the original report from the Italian blog. As you say, the instruction should be to end all pilgrimages to the place. Hopefully they will die away.

      I will now close this thread so any further comments on this news should be posted on the General Discussion thread. When the Pope issues his Decree, We’ll have a “goodbye to Medjugorje” thread! Until then, we’ll use the GD thread, because I don’t think there’s much more to be said about the matter until the Pope closes the matter.

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