Fatima: Third Secret Latest…

More Explosive News from the Convent in Coimbra  SrLuciafacingright

by Christopher A. Ferrara April 10, 2015

In a previous column on this subject I noted an explosive article by Antonio Socci, on the front page of the Italian daily Il Libero for August 17, 2014. Socci reported that in a biography of Sister Lucia published by the Sisters of the Convent in Coimbra in 2013, it is revealed that on January 3, 1944 the Virgin appeared to Sister Lucia and instructed her, regarding the vision pertaining to the Third Secret, to “be at peace, and write what I have commanded you, but not, however, that which has been given to you to understand its meaning.”

Thus was clearly revealed the existence of an explanation of the vision’s meaning by the Virgin Herself that was not written on the same the date the vision was committed to paper. Lucia’s own fellow nuns, in a book they themselves have published to the world, now confirm that something is missing from the vision standing alone: the very thing we have always said is missing, that being precisely the Virgin’s explanation of the vision’s significance which can only be found in a related text we have yet to see.

Now there is even more to report on this breakthrough. As my previous column noted, in view of what the biography had revealed the Italian “Fatimologist” Solideo Paolini wrote twice to the Convent: in February and May of 2014, before Socci’s article appeared.  In a conference published on YouTube on March 11, 2015, Paolini reveals not only what we already know — that both letters were met with silence — but also provides further details on this correspondence.

Paolini notes that the biography’s bibliography cites two never-published sources from Lucia’s writings: a certain letter of hers and a diary. Accordingly, in his first letter to the Convent, received on February 5, 2014, he had asked for “permission to come to the Convent to read these two unpublished sources,” which “you yourselves have cited in your book.”  Two months passed with no answer. 

Paolini wrote again in May of 2014 to advise that he took this silence as a reply that he could not consult the two works and that he had accepted this, but that he had one question: “Yes or no.  Is there a text that explains the significance of the vision, written not on that date [January 3, 1944, the date the vision was committed to paper] but subsequently?” He also asked: “In the works which I asked to consult is there any reference to something more regarding the Third Secret of Fatima, as of yet unpublished?” This letter was received at the Convent on June 6. There was again no response.

In the conference published on YouTube, however, Paolini reports that in October of 2014, after Socci’s article appeared, he received what he describes as an “extremely scanty note” in which the Prioress of the Convent advised that “it is not possible for now to consult the documents you request.  In its time, everything will be published.”

Paolini notes the obvious and totally devastating point: “The Vatican has told us everything was published, but the prioress of the convent says everything will be published.” Paolini also notes the Prioress’ resounding silence in response to his specific question whether the two unpublished sources contain further references to the Third Secret. 

There is no longer any good faith basis to deny that the Vatican is hiding something. The publication of this biography and the results of Paolini’s correspondence with the Convent at Coimbra demonstrate once again that the plans of men can impede the designs of Heaven for only so long.  The worldly-wise Vatican functionaries who have thus far succeeded in burying the integral Third Secret and preventing the Consecration of Russia are in a race, not with mere time, but with God Himself. They will lose; that much is certain. What remains uncertain, however, is how much damage God will allow them to inflict before His will is done and the imperatives of the Message of Fatima are heeded by a Church in crisis.   Source

Comment:

Are those within the Vatican who are desperate to suppress the Third Secret doing so because it reveals their evil machinations, their attempts via the “reforms” of Vatican II and other means to re-make the Church in their own image – i.e. to destroy the Church of Christ? Who could watch the manipulation of the Synod on the Family without drawing that, it seems to me, very obvious conclusion? Or is there some other explanation for the suppression and deceit surrounding the Third Secret? Share your thoughts… 

56 responses

  1. That is a fake sister Lucia that the vatican pretended was the real one!!!

    Sent from my iPad

    • Bernadette,

      I’ve never studied these claims of a “fake” Sr Lucia. It seems, on the face of it (no irony intended) to be rather far-fetched. Anyway, the subject of this thread is the rationale behind the suppression of the Third Secret, so let’s stick to that topic, please and thank you and if bloggers are keen to discuss the identity of Sr Lucia via various photographs, let me know and we may launch a thread specifically to discuss that. For now, our “stick to the topic” rule applies.

      • Editor,
        The claims about an alleged imposter posing as Sister Lucia are nutty conspiracy theory stuff and really not worth addressing – and are a dangerous distraction. Such claims are also used by certain journalists http://truthtoponder.com/2013/02/01/lessons-from-poland-open-wide-the-doors-to-christ-by-joanna-bogle to discredit those who will not accept the new ‘Fatima Lite’ being imposed by the Vatican.
        Anyway, congratulations to Solideo Paolini for his untiring work in exposing the truth about Fatima.

        • WF,

          Thanks for that and for posting the link to what is typical Auntie Joanna stuff. Writes like a novelist all the time; airport “gleaming”, “glorious” Europe, “sipping coffee…” Honestly, drives me nuts.

          And yes, she will always use whatever stick is available to undermine Fatima and she sure used this “fake Lucia” stick to good effect – in parenthesis, a passing remark, a “given”.

          Thank you for the warning; I’ve instinctively ignored the claims about a “double” – too far fetched by far, with no serious logic to it at all. I’m glad to have your confirmation that it is not worth addressing and a dangerous distraction.

          • WF,

            Thanks for that – I’ve read the hard copy of Chris Ferrara’s Secret Still Hidden and it is excellent. Highly recommended to our readers and bloggers.

        • Westminster Fly,

          I agree totally. I’ve never been convinced by the “fake Sister Lucia” theory. It would require a whole community of enclosed religious nuns to conspire in a lie. I don’t believe it at all.

  2. There is absolutely no question that the text of the Third Secret remains unpublished by the Vatican. Our Lady explained the first two parts of the Secret to the shepherd children, so it is unthinkable that she would permit the most important third part to pass without explanation. And we have the proof from Sister Lucy’s own memoirs where she describes this explanatory text as beginning with the words “In Portugal the dogmas of the Faith will always be preserved, etc…”

    Since the time of Pius XII there has been a concerted effort on the part of the Vatican’s internal power brokers to suppress this text and to prevent successive Popes from consecrating Russia in the way Our Lady requested. Whether these men have acted with malice or out of some misguided fidelity to the Second Vatican Catastrophe is immaterial. The bottom line is that they continue to act as the devil’s lackeys, who has them so blinded to the crisis in the Church and the world that the phenomena can only be explained as a “diabolical disorientation,” as Sister Lucy indicated. There has to be something seriously amiss when the hierarchy from the Pope down can stare universal apostasy in the face and yet insist that Vatican II was, and continues to be, a “New Pentecost” inspired by the Holy Spirit.

    It is a mystery of iniquity that will very soon be made clear to all. Our Lord is still in charge of His Church and Our Lady is on course to claim her final victory over the infernal enemy. She told Sister Lucy that the Devil had entered into a final battle with her. His principle weapon, successful thus far, has been those innovating Churchmen in high places whose fondness for novelty has caused them to reject sound doctrine, as St. Paul predicted, in favour of “fables”.

    • Athanasius and Editor, I would be interested in your analysis of this article on the third secret.

      http://padrepioandchiesaviva.com/Third_Secret_of_Fatima.html
      (scroll down for english version)

      Sr. Lucia stated that the secret may be found between chapters 8 – 13 of the Apocalypse. I wonder if the prophecy in CHAPTER 12 concerning the great St, Michael is about to be fulfilled (now war arose in heaven…..) Now, since Holy Mother Church is the kingdom of heaven on Earth, and your ref. Editor to the Synod on the Family with part 2 in October, perhaps there is a strong possibility that some may receive a nasty bruise from the flat end of a fiery sword…. hmmm, hope I’m not one of them!

      • Gerontius

        More than once, we have mentioned Father Luigi Villa on this blog. Our instinct is to ignore his work. There is no basis in fact for his claims and there is no verification that Padre Pio said what he’s alleged to have said (entrusted investigative work to Fr Villa) – lots of people claim that Padre Pio said this or that without there being any evidence to support the claims. I urge you to stick with what we actually know – there’s enough factual information about Fatima from recognised and trusted sources, without the writings of Fr Villa.

        I notice you ask Athanasius for his opinion as well; two things. Firstly I know that he shares my view about Fr Villa’s book and he has, several times, urged bloggers to ignore it. Secondly, since Athanasius now has very much increased work commitments, he may miss your question so please do not think he is ignoring you. He blogs when he can, I know that for a fact, but since his workload has increased, it means he’s not got the same amount of time available to devote to the blog. We have to make allowances for these worldly types who want to earn money, Gerontius. Just be grateful that you and I are not like the rest of men (and women!) 😀

    • Athanasius,

      I did seek and I did find your post in the SPAM folder. It’s very annoying indeed that this happens from time to time. For some time now, I’ve copied my own comments before pressing “post comment”. Then if it disappears, I simply re-post and usually goes straight up second time. Nuisance, I know, but that’s modern technology for you. Temperamental: half temper and half mental, as a friend of mine used to say (about me!)

  3. This is exciting news. I think that the sisters at the carmel in coimbre are been very prudent.The publication of sr Lucia’s biography must be at a very advanced stage and legally beyond recall by the implacable enemies of Fatima. Things are unfolding fast now something I’m observing with a mixture of horror and facination!

    • Tommy,

      I think it’s exciting news, as well. The Vatican can’t suppress the Third Secret forever. I think everything is coming to a head now.

      Sorry this went into SPAM. A problem currently under investigation.

  4. I can’t remember the exact details but I’m sure there’s a story, relayed by Fr Gruner, that Cardinal Ratzinger confided in a German priest – friend that the Third Secret of Fatima was in two distinct envelopes – one with the vision and the other with the explanation.

    After the press conference in 2000 that supposedly released “the Secret” the German priest confronted Cardinal Ratzinger in a sacristy before Mass. Cardinal Ratzinger apparently said something like, “In truth there is more”.

    If you look at the first two parts of the Secret of Fatima, there’s always the vision and then the explanation. It is the explanation by Our Lady that is suppressed. Why? Well, it can only concern the innovations. I think back to Cardinal Pacelli’s (future Pope Pius XII) prophecy:

    “I am worried by the Blessed Virgin’s messages to Lucy of Fatima. This persistence of Mary about the dangers which menace the Church is a divine warning against the suicide of altering the Faith, in her Liturgy, Her theology and Her soul. … I hear all around me innovators who wish to demolish the Holy Sanctuary, destroy the universal flame of the Church, reject Her adornments and make Her feel remorse for Her historical past. A day will come when the civilised world will deny its God, when the Church will doubt as Peter doubted. She will be tempted to believe that man has become God. … In our churches, Christians will search in vain for the red lamp where God awaits them. Like Mary Magdalene, weeping before the empty tomb, they will ask, “Where have they taken him?”’  

    (Words of Pope Pius XII: quoted in the book by Mgr. Georges Roche’s & Philippe Saint Germain, ‘Pie XII Devant L’Histoire’)

    There must be some reference to the changes in the liturgy and the Second Vatican Council in the explanation by Our Lady. The pope and his bishops will have to face up to the reality that the innovations in the liturgy have destroyed the Faith of many and led the Church down a path that leads to desolation. My gut feeling is that it will take something dramatic to force them into eating humble pie.

  5. Tommy and Petrus,

    Your posts both went into the SPAM box – for absolutely no apparent reason. I haven’t got time today, but when I get a minute, if this continues, I’ll contact WordPress support and see if they can work out what is the problem.

    Apologies for the annoyance.

  6. The church is always at war with “Principalities and Powers”. In 1917 during the First World War …

    (what was that all about, I read recently that Germany unified in 1871, by 1900 was producing more steel than Britain. Russia was also industrialising rapidly. There fore the center of world economic growth was forming across Northern Europe and off in to Asia….who could possibly want to throw a spanner in the works….not Britain and America…??…the eventual winners…!!..)…

    Our Lady predicted an even more destructive war would start during the reign of Pius XI when a great light would be seen in the sky…..

    (So, what was the Second World War about…??….Hitler comes to power when Germany is a financial basket case, weakened and brutalised by WW I there have been Soviet Governments set up in Munich, politicians for all factions murdered, blood in the streets as rival political parties battle for power. Once in government Hitler rapidly turns things around he builds motorways in 1936, Britain never even got started with motorways till 1958. He also goes in for full scale rearmament building war ships, bombers etc….and he has his first concentration camps built….Britain and America already experimented with concentration camps in South Africa and against striking workers in North Carolina 1934, and other places before that. Russia by this time had already many millions killed in the Gulag…)…

    So we are left with a totally brutalised world. One in which abortion on demand would be no big deal for any aspiring politician to rationalise and opponents of abortion and other “life style choices ” would be classed as excentric fruit cakes.

    The Secret of Fatima should have been published in 1960. Russia should have been consecrated.
    Now we are told of an explanation given to aid Sister Lucia’s understanding. Our Lady foretold the Second World War, could it be that the explanation might shed light as to why the obvious things Russia and full disclosure by 1960 weren’t done. Maybe there is some “wriggle room” 1960…but maybe later…..Russia to be consecrated…..but wait till you see the whites of their eys…!!!… If Sister Lucia couldn’t understand the visions without an explanation ….. what chance have we got in understanding why the cards have fallen the way they have.

    Surely this explanation has to come sooner or later…..2017 ….is nearly upon us.

    • Crouchback,

      That’s a great post, with loads of factual information about the politics/history of the world included – a really excellent read. Thank you for that.

      I do agree about 2017 – surely by then, all will have been revealed.

      • I agree – 2017 is the 100th anniversary of the Fatima apparitions and I think something big will happen then if not before.

    • Crouchback,

      Welcome back! Whatever happened to your cocky wee hat avatar?

      And yes, 2017 is going to be one very interesting year…

  7. I was sent a booklet from the Carmel at Coimbra a while back, ‘Our Memories of Sister Lucia’ written by a Sister Maria Celina de Jesus Crucificado, OCD, which they are still promoting and selling to this day. Most of it is predictable, taking the Vatican party-line on the Third Secret. Regarding those who believe that the full Third Secret hasn’t been released, Sister Lucia is quoted in the booklet as saying: “Some people are never satisfied. Take no notice!” (page 24).

    However, even in a booklet like this, which appears to have been written to conform to a certain agenda, I feel that Heaven has allowed something to be inadvertently revealed, which appears to contradict this alleged quote from Sister Lucia. On page 45, the following is stated:-

    “It was in the year 2003, on 26th May. I went with her (Sister Lucia) to the lower choir in order to take a photograph of her with the image of the Immaculate Heart of Mary which had just been given to us. It is this photograph which has been used for the cover of this booklet. When I had taken the photograph, Sister Lucia continued to gaze at the Image. I did not disturb her. Then, turning to me, she said anxiously: “Our Lady is crying!!!” I think that, thanks to her extraordinary purity, her “ingenuousness”, she who had been the recipient of so many visions that no-one else had seen, thought at that moment that I, too, could see what she saw. And I, thinking that her statement was a question, said “No, she’s not”. I saw that she looked ‘caught out’, so to speak, like a child whose mother finds her stealing the jam! I said nothing. I thought that I should not ask any questions. I have not spoken of this incident until now. And I wished that that particular image should watch over her mortal remains with her motherly gaze until they were due to be taken to the Cathedral in Coimbra.”

    If Our Lady knew that Her wishes had been fulfilled; that the Consecration of Russia to Her Immaculate Heart had been accomplished, and that the full Third Secret had been revealed – why did She reveal Herself crying to Sister Lucia in 2003?

    These tears of Our Lady, witnessed by Sister Lucia, and revealed by Sister Maria Celina de Jesus Crucificado, are surely yet another sign to humanity that Our Lady’s Fatima requests have not been fulfilled, and of the chastisements that are awaiting us if we don’t fully carry out these requests.

    • Westminster Fly,

      That’s a very powerful post from you and all the more so because the information about the tears comes from another Sister in the community, not someone who belongs to any conspiracy theory group. I’m really grateful for that information.

  8. Note: I have now been in touch with WordPress Support this evening, and they are investigating the SPAM problem, so if your posts disappear please be patient. I will keep an eye on the SPAM box and release them the minute I see them. Renewed apologies.

    Next day… WordPress think they have identified the problem, and it appears to be resolved. Will keep an eye on the SPAM box to make sure.

    • My few lines didn’t appear yesterday {sob) either, and as I’m picking away laboriously on my tablet in the fastnesses of Welsh Wales – well it just isn’t fair……..

      • Christina,

        There was nothing from you in the SPAM or moderation boxes, and I’ve just checked again and still nothing there so I have no idea what happened to your lost post. Perhaps you accidentally deleted it yourself, though perish the thought that I am accusing you! Nay, nay, NAY! I speak on the completely random off chance that there is someone out there, apart from my unworthy self, in this case your good self, who occasionally makes a mistake – oops! There, I said it! Don’t be mad at me, please! 😯 😯 😯 😯 😯 😯 😯 😯 😯 😯 😯 😯 😯 😯 😯 😯

  9. I think the way the Church has chosen to handle this 3rd secret business is very damaging and tends to put people off learning about Fatima. It is both discouraging and dissuasive to see the Church seemingly unable to get its story straight, and failing to carry out the requests of Our Lady.

    I was vaguely aware of the name “Fatima” when still in the Conciliar-Church, but didn’t know a thing about it, nor ever heard it discussed or preached about. Fortunately I have rectified my ignorance since finding tradition; but, my, how very discouraging is it to see how the Church has failed Our Lady and what a shambles has become of its stewardship of the 3rd secret.

    Given this reality, and the general ignorance regarding the apparitions/message in the mainstream Church, I can certainly believe that elements within the Church desire to suppress and/or forget Fatima. (And – if the secret content does indeed relate to apostasy and a crisis of the faith – I could guess why).

    And it seems that, rather than things getting clearer, the plot continually thickens – even today – with for example this latest news. I am loathe to make the comparison, but I am reminded of a soap-opera at times!

    One question I have is – what confidence can we take in modern developments which continue to occur? What review or test of reliability are they subject to? For example, when declaring miracles, the Church consults those people directly involved, and any relevant experts (for example medical Doctors) and also considers presented evidence etc. From these inputs, it will make its mind up. But who will consider this particular news regarding content of a book, for example? Is it left to experts such as Fr Gruner, or journalists like Chris Ferrara, to see how it fits with existing information or interview the author etc?

    • Maybe there are too many masons in the Vatican. You know what they are like with their secrets.

    • Gabriel Syme,

      To answer your question at the end – unfortunately, we have to rely on those people like Fr Gruner and his team who have studied all aspects of Fatima and who can be trusted to inform us truthfully of any developments. Fr Gruner merely reports what he has learned and it is all – I believe I’m correct in saying – taken from objective data which we may check out if we wish.

      A good example is the booklet from the Carmel (referred to above by Westminster Fly) containing the detail about Our Lady’s tears seen by Sr Lucia in the presence of one of her Sisters. That is objective data because the Sister obviously doesn’t realise the significance of what she is reporting, having made it clear throughout the booklet that she is toeing the Vatican party line. Nobody in the Vatican is going to point out the significance of that incident, so we can only rely on Fr Gruner and those working with him, like Christopher Ferrara. In my view, they are the only reliable source(s) for information about Fatima these days.

  10. This is the latest E-Newsletter from Fr Gruner, out today:

    Our Lady’s E-Newsletter: April 2015
    ________________________________________

    Ukraine Prepares for War;
    Russia Readies Nukes

    Since the so-called ceasefire agreement was signed on Feb. 12 in Minsk, fighting has continued in Ukraine, with more than 100 Ukrainian military personnel being killed and the town of Shyrokyne, near Mariupol, being virtually destroyed by heavy shelling. No estimate of casualties for the pro-Russian forces has been reported by the Western media. Both sides are admittedly preparing for the full-blown renewal of all-out combat within the next two months (see: “Pro-Russian Rebels Told: Major Attack on Ukraine Imminent”).

    The Ukrainian military is building 300 defensive fortifications, including a system of trenches on the beaches of Mariupol, the port city that is a vital link between Crimea and Eastern Ukraine. An amphibious attack by pro-Russian forces is expected. There are reports of Russian tanks and munitions flowing into Eastern Ukraine and a buildup of Russian forces on the Ukraine border. About 60,000 troops are said to be massed there. Russian officials have declined to comment.
    Meanwhile, the United States is sending paratroopers from its 173rd Airborne Brigade stationed in Viacenza, Italy, to Western Ukraine to train Ukrainian troops. The U.S. paratroopers are expected to arrive by the end of April, about the time some believe an all-out war for control of the Eastern territories will erupt, with Russian forces possibly taking an active role. (See: “U.S. paratroopers to train 900 Ukrainian soldiers starting April 20”.)

    Elements of the U.S. 2nd Calvary are also being deployed in Lithuania as the Baltic nations prepare for what they see as a likely military conflict with Russia. A significant portion of the population in Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia are Russian speakers sympathetic to Moscow. Poland is also preparing for war and building watchtowers to keep track of developments along its border with Kaliningrad, the Russian enclave on the Baltic, where Russia has reportedly deployed Iskander nuclear missiles, a tactical weapon it has threatened to use against NATO forces. (See: “The Baltics Are Beefing Up Amid Russia’s Nuclear War Threats”.)

    All of these developments should frighten any sane observer, but there is more: the head of the European Union Commission, Jean Claude Juncker, has called for the formation of a European Union Army (see: “German Defense Minister Supports Calls for EU Army”). The proposed 28-nation force would be headquartered in Brussels and would be in addition to NATO forces.
    Proponents of the EU army point out that not all members of the European Union belong to NATO. They also want Europe to take charge of its own defense and see the formation of such a force as a hedge against EU member states falling back into the divisions of nationalism. Germany supports the formation of an EU army, which lends the idea a credibility that could make it a reality. The German defense minister has said that such a force would be in line with U.S. policy that European nations should progressively assume the burden of their own defense rather than rely on U.S. forces within a NATO coalition.

    The admitted purpose of an EU army would be to contain what has been described as Russian expansionism (see: “Spooked by Putin, EU Brass Considers a European Army”). The Western media narrative of Russian aggression in Ukraine is being invoked by Juncker and those who favor the formation of the massive military force, under the pretext that Europe is threatened by a resurgent Russian imperialism.

    The call for a European Union army has provoked Russia to respond with a blunt declaration that the size of armies matters little when nuclear weapons are involved. (See: “Russia Delivers Blunt Response to Proposed EU Army”.) Russian officials have said that rather than provide added security for Europe, a massive EU military force would be regarded by Russia as a provocation and make Europe more vulnerable to Russia’s nuclear capabilities.

    One of the foremost Western experts on Russia, Professor Stephen Cohen, says that the United States and Russia are closer to war than they have ever been and characterizes the present crisis as exceeding the danger encountered during the Cuban missile crisis. (See: “War with Russia? More Possible than Ever… (with Prof. Stephen Cohen)”.) Prof. Cohen has pointed out that both Washington and Kiev appear intent on sabotaging the Minsk ceasefire agreement and has called the U.S. policy in Ukraine “reckless.”

    Cohen is professor emeritus of Russian Studies at Princeton and New York Universities and has spent more than 40 years studying Russian history. He has bluntly characterized the U.S.-led narrative of Russian aggression in the Ukraine as “malarkey” and has repeatedly criticized the “disinformation” about supposed Russian expansionism into Europe.

    According to Cohen, Ukraine is involved in a civil war, which the West refuses to acknowledge, preferring instead to blame Russia. Tension between the West and Russia, Cohen says, stem from a 2013 trade proposal by the EU that sought to exclude Russia, which had been (and still remains) Ukraine’s main trading partner. Russia simply wanted to be part of any EU deal, but the West refused any accommodation.

    So now the unthinkable is being thought: nuclear war. Russia sees itself as being hemmed in by NATO forces, with the U.S. military in the forefront. It is being beaten down economically through crippling sanctions imposed under Washington’s leadership and insistence. What will Russia do?
    Inaction is not an option, nor is it in the Russian character. According to Prof. Cohen, war between Russia and the United States may be triggered if President Barack Obama implements a provision in the Ukraine Freedom Defense Act that allows him to send massive amounts of lethal military aid to Ukrainian forces. Then, World War III could begin in earnest.

    The Fatima Center has been in the forefront in offering the facts about this situation that may lead to the destruction of the world as we know it (see: “The World Is on the Brink of a Nuclear War”). Now, our research and warnings are being presented through sources the secular media cannot discount, although it tends to mute its coverage, or to counterbalance the truth with official government propaganda, for which it has become the conduit.

    We have told you that the time is short. We have told you that the world is sleepwalking to its own destruction. We have tried to wake it up. Never have Our Lady’s prophecies of terrible chastisements that will result in the “annihilation of nations” been closer to fulfillment. We who are awake to the dangers we face must raise our voices as never before. We must also implore Heaven to send our Pope and bishops the grace to do the only thing that can avert disaster: Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary NOW!

  11. I count myself as a solid Gruner-Ferrara “Fatimist”. Yet I would like to add to the thread a couple of points ad random.

    1. “Thank you for the warning; I’ve instinctively ignored the claims about a “double” – too far fetched by far, with no serious logic to it at all. I’m glad to have your confirmation that it is not worth addressing and a dangerous distraction.”

    This isn’t good enough. Published photos have been checked by experts who have come up with dozens of points of divergence between the face of Lucia pre-silencing (early 1960’s) and Lucia post-silencing. One gets old but one doesn’t suddenly develop a new nose or ears that were rounded and are now pointed, or a different distance between forehead and bridge of nose etc etc. I think there is something in the fake Lucia story: at least enough for it to be investigated properly. Maybe it’s nonsense, but there is at least a chance that it isn’t.

    2. My biggest difficultly with Fatima’s messages has always been that the promised war (not the one foretold to start in the reign of Pius XI but the one after that, i.e, World War III) was foretold to start in the 20th Century. Now, Heaven’s messages outside of Revelation are contingent – all of them. i.e., prayer and penance of the faithful can put things off, mitigate them or even have them cancelled altogether. I am not trying to claim anything here other than my own (and everyone else’s) confusion at the sequence of events that are to unfold / were meant to unfold. Is this why the Secret was not released – because no World War III did start in the 20th Century?

    3. With regard to mitigation, whilst consecrations of the world to the Immaculate Heart have been done several times (Pius XII once, JP II twice, Francis once), it’s undeniably true that Our Lady’s own requirements have not been met. JP II said that this was to stop the world power of Communism from making certain moves (whatever he meant by that). Yet I do believe that the 1984 consecration, while (like the others) not fulfilling Heaven’s own requirement for the conversion of Russia and a period of peace, did lead to the dismantling of Soviet Russia with the advent of Gorbachev soon after.

    3. Fr. Gruner is right to keep his eye on the Ukrainian events. Fr. Malachi Martin decades ago on radio said that the 3rd Secret, which he had read in 1962 I believe with his boss Cardinal Bea, concerned “Kiev and Moscow”. He repeated this two or three times, clearly wanting to bring the listeners’ attention to these words. Yet at the same time I don’t particularly like Fr. Gruner’s take on these events: I lived in Russia for twelve years and I don’t know if Fr. Gruner has ever been there. The Russians are a bunch of barbarians and anarchic bandits for the most part, serial and addicted liars and deceivers, and I don’t like Gruner’s line that the West is to blame for the war in Ukraine.

    4. Finally, here is a way-out ‘theory’ of mine, probably fantasy, for you all. I shall pose it in the form of an exam question:

    “Rome knows very well, from the Fatima, Akita and other approved apparitions, that the End Times are fast gathering pace and that the Great Chastisement is nearly upon us. As a result, instead of alarming the whole world, it decided, via Vatican II and all subsequent events (Assisi, ecumenism etc.) to open the doors of the Church to everyone in an attempt to save the souls of the bulk of humanity by a great widening of the definition of what the Church actually is, thereby counting as “Catholic” those who were not visible members of the Church; all this on the basis of Christ’s own ‘What you loose on earth shall be counted loosed in Heaven’. Discuss.

    Benedict Carter

    • Ben Carter,

      There was no prediction of a world war III – I have never heard that. This is what Our Lady said about war:

      “A worse war will break out during the reign of Pius XI. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that He is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions against the Church and against the Holy Father.”

      Some experts are interpreting the threatened chastisement as a third world war, especially because of the state of the world and Russia’s build up of weapons etc., but that may or may not be the case. The spiritual chastisement that we are already undergoing, is also possibly the chastisement, IMHO.

      About the “fake” Lucia – I just don’t think it’s possible and can’t see what the purpose would be. Sr Lucia was bound by obedience and would have obeyed her superiors, as she did, without having to be “disappeared”. I don’t care what the so-called expert photographers say, I think it’s too incredible. If she died much sooner than we were told, as the fake lucy theory people say, then that would be the problem solved for the Vatican, no need for a “double”.

  12. Fr. Gruner in his latest newsletter cites Stephen Cohen, a New York-based historian. One should know that Cohen, an ardent left-winger, has consistently backed Russia through thick and thin, even in the days of the Soviet Union. He is a clever man, but tarnished by an unremitting bias.

  13. “Rome knows very well, from the Fatima, Akita and other approved apparitions, that the End Times are fast gathering pace and that the Great Chastisement is nearly upon us. As a result, instead of alarming the whole world, it decided, via Vatican II and all subsequent events (Assisi, ecumenism etc.) to open the doors of the Church to everyone in an attempt to save the souls of the bulk of humanity by a great widening of the definition of what the Church actually is, thereby counting as “Catholic” those who were not visible members of the Church; all this on the basis of Christ’s own ‘What you loose on earth shall be counted loosed in Heaven’. Discuss.”

    OK. I don’t think this theory is plausible BC. If Rome knows that the time of chastisement is near, then surely it should be doing all it can to sound the warning, in order that the greatest number would pay heed, be converted and therefore be saved. Our Lady Herself came with dire warnings if Her message was ignored. She didn’t come preaching ‘ecumenism’ in the hope that more might be saved that way. One cannot do evil that good may come of it, so the Church could never ‘widen its definition’, i.e. dilute its teaching, so that souls might be ‘saved’. The words of Our Lord to Peter “what you loose on earth shall be loosed in Heaven” cannot be taken to mean that the Pope can alter Church teaching or do anything he likes in order to win souls.

    We’ve all seen the disastrous effects of ecumenism. Far from bringing people into the Church, it has led to an exodus. No. Rome has suppressed the full Fatima message because it is currently populated with men who think that they know better than the Mother of God, and prefer their own political machinations and human ‘wisdom’ to Heavenly guidance.

    Sister Lucia said many times that Our Lady told her that many souls would be saved by the First Five Saturday devotion.

    Regarding the ‘fake Sr Lucia’ theory – I’ve noted that nearly all the groups who peddle this stuff on the internet are sedevacantists . . .

  14. Margaret Mary – no, one of the later apparition references is to a 20th Century war (not World War II).

    Westminsterfly: yes, sure, these are my own objections to my own imaginings (which are infrequent, idle musings, nothing more).

    Sedevacantists – so what? There is no linkage I think between them and … even a sedevacantist can be right sometimes … .

    What this thread shows is that none of us know (except Rome of course). It’s all speculation.

    • BenCJCarter,

      The “later apparition references” do not count. I am talking about what Our Lady actually predicted and there was no mention of “world war II”. The only mention of war in the actual apparitions has come true and I think it is wrong to cast doubt on the apparitions by suggesting that one prophecy didn’t come true. There wasn’t any prophecy of a world war III. The annihilation of nations might mean that another war is to come, but that is open to interpretation.

      The fact that only certain people in Rome know the full truth about the Third Secret is true – I agree with you there.

      • Sorry, typo – “no mention of world war II” should be “no mention of world war III”.

  15. I must admit that I do not spend too much time concerning myself about war. I’m not sure how much of the third part of the secret concerns war. I’ve always considered war as being related to the second part.

    The current dismantling of the liturgy and the Dogmas of the Faith is much more frightening than the prospect of physical war.

    • Petrus,

      I agree with you completely. I think the crisis in the Church is the real issue at Fatima.

  16. Margaret Mary:

    You misunderstand me. No doubt my fault. I have argued for Fatima for years on the internet with atheists, protestants and liberal so-called “Catholics” who think the thing is a hoax or has ended its time.

    Unfortunately the Fatima waters are muddied by the many apparitions and visions that Lucia had AFTER the public apparitions of 1917 were complete. Chris Ferrara’s articles refer to several of them. These later visions and messages clearly develop the Fatima story in ways we know little about. But we do know that a war was due to be fought in the 20th Century yet appears not to have been fought.

    After many years of reading, I have come to the conclusion that too much speculation on the matter is not fit for a Christian. It’s the same with the Book of the Apocalypse: we all love thinking about what might be and when, but how does that add to the Christian life? In fact too much attention to these matters can be a danger to the Christian life.

    As to the content of the missing material (and I am sure there IS missing material), global war (= a Great Chastisement) is coming, sooner or later. Some people say 2017 because of the warning to the King of France. 2017 or 2354 – who knows? Only Our Lord. Putting a date on these things is foolishness: are we not forbidden from numerology and similar pagan pursuits? Apostasy in the Church: we can all see it. We do not need to know the exact content of the Fatima 3rd Secret to know that it is all around us. The only question is what do we do about it?

    • BC,
      It’s inevitable that we will think about these things, but I agree that too much speculation is not good. The best thing we can do as laity is simply to live the full Fatima message – ESPECIALLY the First Five Saturday devotion, and to pray and campaign for the Pope and bishops to consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. For this end, please would all CT bloggers and readers support the Fatima Network – the only organisation in the world dedicated to this aim http://www.fatima.org

    • bencjcarter,

      Archbishop Lefebvre said that he had lived through three World Wars, the latter being the conciliar revolution. That seems to tie in well with the content of the Third Secret as far as we can deduce from the first line of its text. Consequently, I personally believe, and have always believed, that the Third Secret of Fatima is a supernatural chastisement which has being ongoing since 1960 (when preparations began for Vatican II)!

      There is no distinct prophecy of a global war in the 20th century after WWII that I’m aware of, and I’ve studied Fatima at great length. What I think has happened here is that someone has either misinterpreted a later vision by Sister Lucy or just made the story up for reasons of sensationalism. All material chastisements revealed by Our Lady at Fatima are contained in the Second part of the Secret. The Third part, we may absolutely rest assured, is much, much worse in that it is spiritual and eternal in nature. It is the apostasy revealed in Apocalypse. That’s why Sister Lucy pointed us to Chapters 8-13 of Apocalypse in relation to the content of the Third Secret.

      As for sedevacantists. You’re right, they do get it right from time to time. In fact, much of what they say is correct and that’s what makes them so dangerous to souls. Acceptance of just one grave error is sufficient for Catholics to cut themselves off from the Church. Sedevacantism is the opposite extreme to liberalism, yet both result in schism. The devil is extremely clever!

  17. WF,

    The CT policy is never to ask for money, whether or ourselves or another organisation. Hence, I have altered the end of your post slightly to ask for support for the Fatima Center – which we urge anyway. If readers and bloggers wish to donate, that is up to them, but we never ask for funding. I hope you understand that if we refuse to ask for money for our own apostolate, we are certainly not going to ask for funding for other groups, no matter how laudable!

  18. I thought it was a good time to remind ourselves why Our Lady said 1960 for the release of the Third Secret, and I found this video on Fr Gruner’s site.

  19. I certainly think that the March 25th 1984 consecration of the world performed by Pope John Paul II had some value. A verifiable fact that is not always highlighted, occurred less than two months after the 1984 consecration. This was the explosion at Severomorsk Soviet Naval Base, on May 13th no less – a very significant Fatima date – which virtually crippled the Soviet Navy. http://www.nytimes.com/1984/07/11/world/soviet-naval-blast-called-crippling.html My own belief is that the 1984 consecration bought us some more time, but was not capable of bringing about the promise of world peace made by Our Lady, as only the Collegial Consecration of Russia, and specifically Russia, can do that. The current Russian situation suggests that the time the 1984 consecration may have bought us is rapidly running out.

    • WF,

      Thanks for that John Salza article – I’ll read it later, but just popped in to say that you are absolutely correct about Carlos Evaristo – in fact, if my memory serves me correctly (for once!) he’s the one who confronted Fr Gruner in public and has made a bit of a career out of sabotaging both Fr Gruner and the Fatima message.

  20. What makes things worse in terms of trust is the fact that the Sr. Lucia which went public is probably not the real Sr. Lucia. There is clear evidence looking at the traits of the face of both Lucias that the second one is fake. The true Sr. Lucia probably refused to be in public and the convent was under pressure. It is very painful to acknowledge that we all have been deceived for so many years. Lord, have mercy on those who are responsible for this deceit. There is urgent need to make these observations public:
    http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/g12htArt2_TwoSisterLucys.htm

    • Ivanhoe,

      We have discussed (and dismissed) the theory that there were “two Lucias”

      “The true Sr Lucia” as you put it, was the most obedient Religious as her writings and spiritual director testify.

      It’s just too far fetched for words. Best to concentrate on the known facts about Fatima and leave the conspiracy theorists to their fun and games.

  21. Ivanhoe,
    I went into that link, although I had seen it before – it’s utter nonsense. There is no ‘clear evidence’ at all. Not a scrap. Anyone who has had their photo taken over many years, taking into account the effects of ageing, using different cameras, at different angles, in different lighting, would exhibit the same alleged discrepancies.
    They say the camera never lies, but it does. I only remarked on this last week to a friend of mine. My neighbour’s flat is up for sale and pictures of the rooms have been put online by two different estate agents. Although it’s the same place, the way these photos have been taken make the property look totally different. It is a common occurrence.
    Take Editor’s advice and drop this red herring. To continue with it is to play into the hands of those who discredit the good work being done by the promoters of the full Fatima message.

    • WF,

      How true. I cannot believe the lies my camera has been telling for years!

      Seriously, I have used that same argument many times, that we all change over time and that there are lots of variables to be taken into account when looking at photos. I mean, it’s obvious, isn’t it, that I’m not ALWAYS going to look young, slim, glamorous, blah blah, especially on a rainy day… 😀

      To conclude, you are right – the “two Lucias” theory is nothing more than a red herring. A distraction.

  22. I’ve sent a letter to Mr. Putin telling him many of us do not believe the lies peddled by the West regarding him and Russia etc. I asked him not to retaliate to Nato’s provocations as there is another way. I then told him about Fatima and asked him to request the Pope to do the Consecration. If anybody else would like to write to him herewith the link:

    http://eng.letters.kremlin.ru/

    Personally I think the man is very maligned and that we are not told the real truth.

    • Crofterlady,

      Now, that’s what I call Catholic Action – with bells on!

      I will follow your good example and write to him as well.

  23. There is a very good talk by Bishop Fellay on you tube Bishop Fellay End times/3rd secret. Well worth watching

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