Pope Should “Stamp Out” Orkney Redemptorists – Aberdeen Priest

papastronsayMgr Basil Loftus’ latest savage attack on the traditional Mass and all that goes with it
(e.g. doctrine, morals, vestments)  is writ large in this week’s Catholic Times where he traces the history of Pope Francis’ efforts to “stamp out” traditional Orders, praising his “patience and tolerance of those who disagree with him” (straight faces all round, please and thank you) but pointing out that, nevertheless, “he feels bound to intervene.”  There are just too many examples, too much of the Monsignor’s “all over the place” style of writing for me to be bothered quoting verbatim, but the upshot is that, since Papa Francis The Merciful has made great inroads into stamping out the old rite Mass whenever and wherever possible in foreign parts, perhaps it’s now time for him to turn to our own shores and put the ancient Mass out of reach once and for all. Mgr Loftus writes: “One only has to think, in our own countries, of the  “Tridentine” Redemptorists in the Orkney Islands – almost but not quite visible across the water from my study window as I write this.”  He adds: “There are other communities of ‘St Peter’ priests in the dioceses of Shrewsbury and of Lancaster who are not only totally cocooned in pre-Vatican II rubrics and pre-Pius XII liturgical outlook; but who enjoy immunity and isolation from the 99.9 recurrent percent of the rest of the Catholic Church, as though it were a contagious disease against which their baptism had not vaccinated them.” 

There is  a laughable reference to Robert Mickens of the insufferable and largely Anglican “Tablet” whom he quotes as saying: “this” [devotion to the ancient Mass] “goes to ecclesiology and not just to lace and cappa magnas”. Too true.  Just as the new Mass “goes to” Modernism, that synthesis of all heresies, so the Traditional Latin Mass “goes to” the traditional Catholic Faith, dogma, morals, the lot. And that’s why Mgr Loftus concludes his latest venomous attack on the Mass with the hope that Pope Francis will see off the traditional Mass here, as he has tried to do elsewhere, in jig time. “The whole question” [of the old Mass] “has to be examined” he opines, as if anybody takes him seriously. “Our own countries” he concludes “are by no means the worst offenders [“offenders”?] – but there is room for thought to be given to the matter. ” (Taken from Mgr Loftus: Crusade of mercy and forgiveness, Catholic Times, 12 December, 2014)

Honestly, I can’t make up my mind for whom I feel most pity:  Loftus himself, for his ignorance of the Faith and  total lack of true Catholicity, Flaherty, his editor for his sheer stupidity in publishing Loftus {without a thought to how he’s going to get himself out of his Modernist hole when Pope Pius XIII is elected!) or the Transalpine Monks for having thrown in the towel in the fight against Modernism, knowing now that in addition to not being wanted by the Bishop in the first place, they are now treated to the spectacle of the Bishop (Hugh Gilbert of Aberdeen) permitting another priest resident in the Diocese to publicly insult  and humiliate them,  all but calling for them to be “stamped out”.  Just imagine if any traditional priest had similarly insulted Loftus or any other Modernist in the public square. Would the Bishop remain silent? You kidding?  Maybe you feel sorry for the Bishop caught in the middle of this shocking  attack by Mgr Loftus on the monks? So, let’s hear it – who, if any of the above, gets your sympathy? 

91 responses

  1. Editor,

    Like you, I find myself asking “where do I begin?” Mgr Loftus really doesn’t surprise me. He’s never slow to show his utter contempt for the Mass of all time. He is a De facto Protestant and one wonders why he bothered becoming a priest at all. Surely his life would have been a lot easier as a Protestant. At least Protestants have some dignity and don’t pretend to be something they aren’t.

    I have to say that I don’t feel sorry for the bishop at all. In fact, I think the bishop needs to act and sort Loftus out. What other priest would be allowed to demonise other priests in their diocese?

    Part of me, however, wants to say “you’ve made your bed, so lie in it” to those monks who betrayed the Catholic Faith for the scraps from Pope Benedict ‘ s table. My feeling is they grew tired of fighting and wanted an easy life. Well, I hope they are enjoying their new found “easy life”.

    • Petrus,

      I agree about the monks. They were a huge disappointment at the time and now I can’t help thinking that they deserve all they get. The bishop doesn’t want them there, that’s obvious or they wouldn’t be limited to one Mass a month in Aberdeen – what about the other Sundays and the islands, like Shetland, for example? I wonder what they’re thinking now on reading Mgr Loftus’s attack on them? They wanted to be reconciled, in unity with the Church (as if they weren’t before) and yet even the priests in their own diocese don’t want to know them – I know a bit of that diocese and Mgr Loftus is not alone in not wanting them there.

    • Patricia,
      On about the controversy raised by Bishop Basil Loftus.
      In this new “church”, “we break with the past to become new men, sectarianism replaces the love of neighbour, individual pride grows in the shade…” (Cardinal Tommaso Bernetti – August 4, 1845).
      And it happened already nearly 170 years ago! today we are reaping the bitter fruits…
      These are the same sectarians who for nearly a half century divide the Church and persecute the true Catholics, who now present themselves as victims…
      The “ravenous wolves”, they are in the Church among those who do everything to eradicate the Faith of believers… The outraged Church still suffers relentless attacks of the outraging “church”!
      I have my own ideas on the matter: the masonic sect managed to gradually take over the steering apparatus of the Church.
      The “ravening wolves” scatter the flock and break the unity among Catholics.
      In Caritate Christi per Mariam (Mediatrix of all graces)

        • About the controversy raised by Bishop Basil Loftus.
          I read the “Conjuration Antichrétienne” by Mgr Henri Delassus.
          However, I did not mention it beacause I do not know if it has been translated and published in English.
          God bless you LD

    • Petrus,

      Actually, while I see the “they’ve made their beds so let them lie on it” point, I also think the monks may well be regretting their decision as I’m sure they cannot approve of Pope Francis and the things he’s doing and saying. Instead of criticising them for past decisions, maybe we should pray that they reverse that decision – they are very much needed in the battle against modernism, so I, for one, would be immensely impressed if they showed they had the courage to say they were forced to make a stand after making the previous decision in very good (I have no doubt) faith.

      • I couldn’t agree more – I’ve just made the same point myself below, after reading Crofterlady and Helen’s comments saying the same thing.

        I really hope the monks make a stand. This insulting article by Mgr Loftus opens the door to them to do so. I hope they take it without thinking twice.

  2. Well done to the Pope for having “patience and tolerance of those who disagree with him”, especially when those dissidents are in the right. I would have thought that would have been the least that was expected of him considering the position he occupies.

    I wonder what Basil said, if he said anything, when the Pope stated that there were too many Monsignors in the Church. I know that there is at least one too many.

    He`s lucky he has the time to be acting the Keyhole Kate watching people outside his window. Maybe he should turn round and have a gander in the mirror.

    I thought there was a shortage of priests.

  3. Like Petrus, I want to say to those monks that they’ve made their bed so lie on it. I definitely don’t feel any sympathy for them or anyone else on editor’s list, to be honest.

    The only people I feel sympathy for are the Catholics in the Aberdeen area who would have had more regular Masses if those monks hadn’t sold out for the appearance of unity. They only have one Mass a month in Aberdeen and I believe that’s just the same as the SSPX so what was the point?

    • Christina,

      I don’t have a link, but I was told verbally over the weekend that Cardinal Burke is to visit one of the ICKSP Churches (the “Dome of Home”) next year to celebrate mass there.

      If true, I am sure this will send Loftus into meltdown. Hooray!

  4. Mgr. Loftus is a non-entity, an old rebel trying to impress what’s left of his hippie class. St. Pius X described this internal enemy of the Church very well. Thankfully, they’re all at that stage in life now where they have one foot in the grave and the other on a banana skin. We can only hope that Our Lord will grant Mgr. Loftus the grace to repent of his very public hatred of the Mass of the saints and martyrs before his judgment.

    As for the Redemptorists of Papa Stronsay. They will not be troubled because they are no longer a threat to the Modernists in the hierarchy. They make no protest against the scandals that anyone with a Catholic sense of the Faith can still plainly see. For them, the crisis in the Church was only ever about the Mass. Summorum Pontificum gave them the Mass (with approval) and that was the end of their opposition to Modernism. They are now completely neutralised and happy to be so. God alone knows the intention behind their decision of a few years ago, so it is up to God to judge them on it. All we can do is observe the fact that the faith is still being seriously damaged, so many souls at risk, and they no longer have anything to say about it. That is not at all the missionary spirit of St. Alphonsus!

  5. I also extend my comment to the Fraternity of Saint Peter, who must be one of the least apostolic institutes in the Church. I know the branch in Scotland is run like a private members’ Club. What an absolute disgrace that priest is for betraying Archbishop Lefebvre. I’ve heard that the Archbishop intervened personally at great financial cost to “rescue” that priest from the Modernist Dominicans.

    I agree with Athanasius, all of these groups who sold the jerseys were probably never truly apostolic traditionalists in the first place. The crisis was only about the Mass. Let’s hope they see the error of their ways.

    Athanasius,

    I loved your comment about one foot in the grave and one foot on a banana skin. Hilarious! It reminded me of Gerald Warner ‘ s talk at the last Catholic Truth conference when he said modernist priests were like “Dad dancing at the disco”!

  6. What a pitiable state of affairs, Mgr Loftus savages the Traditional Latin Mass, priestly vestments and anything else he can come up with.

    I echo the sentiments of others on this blog as regards the Redemptorists in Papa Stronsay, they have been neutralised by the Modernists, they have made their beds so lie on it.

    Problem is Pope Francis, Mgr Loftus and the many Modernists today in the Catholic Church, are refusing to recognise the crisis today in the Catholic Church in their seeming contempt for the Traditional Mass, thinking that Dogmas can be changed to suit the “worlds values” which are anything but Catholic.

    Are they holding in contempt for example, Catholic Martyrs who died defending the Mass and Catholic Faith and subsequently canonized as Saints. Such as:

    During the Reformation – the 40 English Martyrs, like Edmund Campion, Thomas More, Thomas Fisher, Margaret Clitherow and others. In Scotland, John Ogilvie, Jesuit priest who said the Traditional Mass.

    What of the Carmelite Martyrs of Compeigne, France, executed during the French Revolution.

    Pope Francis may not care too much for those he call Rosary Counters, but Rosaries and Sacrifices are a necessity for those especially in authority in the Catholic Church. It is in particular for the salvation of souls and prevent them from going to hell.

  7. What a horrible character Basil Loftus is; he is a completely malign presence in the Church.

    How curious it must be for any non-Catholics looking-in, to encounter his delirious writings. It must be obvious to even them that something is deeply amiss within the Church.

    I suppose in one sense we can take comfort: if modernists, such as Loftus, continue to be so acerbic and agitated even in old age then clearly they are not satisfied with the destruction they have achieved (even though it is significant). I sometimes detect this with Francis and Kasper etc too, that they feel they are in a race against their own death to complete the sabotage of Christ’s Church. They will not succeed, of course.

    With the continued growth of the SSPX, and also the advent of Summorum Pontificum, I have a strong impression that these elderly clergy feel exactly the same as the Protestants did at the time of the Catholic re-establishment in the UK. That is, that are enraged and full of bitterness to see that which they hate refusing to die, in fact growing, despite their best efforts to “stamp it out”.

    • Gabriel Syme,

      I think you’ve hit a nail on the head there, with your observation about the race against time which appears to be driving Mgr Loftus (and Cardinal Kasper and Pope Francis) to effect the changes they crave but won’t succeed in getting. Indeed, I’ve noted often that Mgr Loftus’s writings are hallmarked by his evident frustration.

      One important thing to note about him is the fact that he cannot and will not tolerate any criticism. He must have the last word. Anyone who (against the odds) manages to get a letter published in criticism of something he’s written, finds that the editor publishes a response from Loftus alongside. Highly unprofessional, of course, but useful in that it reveals something of the (lack of) character of the Monsignor (not to mention the unprofessionalism of the editor). What we learn about the (lack of) character of Mgr Loftus, of course, is that dissenter that he is, he won’t tolerate dissent from his dissent. If you catch my drift…

      I did send the link to this thread to the Transalpine monks with a warning about the editor’s [of the Catholic Times] practise of giving Loftus the last word, just in case the Superior thought it worth sending a letter for publication. Loftus will always get the last word. It’s dishonest and unprofessional, and it tells us an awful lot about both the (lack of) characters of the editor (Kevin Flaherty) and Mgr Loftus.

      • Editor,

        I’m glad you sent the link to this blog to the monks – may I take this opportunity to plead with them to make a statement reversing their previous “reconciliation” and restoring themselves to a place of leadership in the fight for the faith, which is now even under attack in the highest place in the Church. I think all Catholics of good will would welcome them back to the fight with open arms. I know I would.

  8. I do agree that Mgr. Baz Loftus is an unpleasant character who thinks that his views on others within the Church are of some consequence. The truth is that his views are irrelevant and they should be treated with utter contempt. He has had a source of income in writing such nonsense and having it published in the Catholic Times. He hails from Halifax originally and he even managed to become the Head Boy of St. Bede’s Grammar School in Bradford much to the disgust of the other boys in his year there, who disliked him intensely. I was there at the same time and even in the same class, some of the time of his tenure at that school. As a priest he belongs to the Leeds Diocese and has nothing to do with Scotland at all. He just happens to have got himself a house there, just about as far away from the Leeds Diocese as he could get. The bishop who should bring him to heel is not the Bishop of Aberdeen but his own Bishop of Leeds.

    • Jaray

      What was the word they used to use in the public schools in England for
      such (un)likeable characters?

      I used to see it in the Billy Bunter comics. Was it twerp or sneak?

      Up here he would have been called a wee squeef.

    • “The bishop who should bring him to heel is not the Bishop of Aberdeen but his own Bishop of Leeds.”

      Not true. In addition to what Petrus has rightly said, every priest is answerable to the Bishop of the diocese in which he lives and works. Loftus is writing for Catholic newspapers, including the Scottish Catholic Observer, so there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that he did not “just happen to have got himself a house there.” He’s using his retirement to attack the Faith and the Bishop should have sent him packing back to Leeds a long time ago. Having failed to do that, the least the Bishop can do is to tell him to “shut up” or whatever the equivalent short, sharp phrase for “stop writing rubbish” might be. Oops. Maybe that’s it… 😀

      I have now emailed the link to this discussion to the monks on Papa Stronsay, for their information.

      • Editor,

        “every priest is answerable to the Bishop of the diocese in which he lives and works”

        That is correct. I asked a priest I know who works in a different diocese from the one he belongs to and he said that is the case. He should know.

        I think common sense should tell us that because, otherwise all the dissenters would be moving to live in a diocese where the bishop had no authority over them LOL !

    • JARay,

      What you say about Mgr. Loftus’ school days demonstrates both his ambition from an early age and his natural penchant for making people dislike him intensely. I guess we should credit some wisdom at least to a post-Vatican II hierarchy that ensured he would never exit the lower ranks of the clergy. And, boy, has he taken that very badly!

      I agree that his bishop is the bishop of Leeds, but Petrus is also right to suggest that any bishop whose diocese Mgr. Loftus resides in has the authority to silence his public heresy.

      Petrus

      It’s worse than dad at the disco. It’s jump-suited grandad high on LSD and low in bone density!

    • JARay

      “He has had a source of income in writing such nonsense and having it published in the Catholic Times”

      Do you (or anybody else) know how much he is paid for his rantings in the Catholic Times? He also writes in the Scottish Catholic Observer, so it’s no wonder he can afford to live in the Highlands!

    • I wonder why he moved to Scotland? It seems a bit odd to move away up to Sutherland from Leeds. I wonder what the reason was?

    • I agree. He really is more to be pitied than anything else. He’s a relic from the sixties and the “new springtime” mentality. We should really pray hard for him.

  9. I remember when there was a suggestion that the Galloway Diocese should use Polish priests to cover the shortage in the diocese and the reason given for the refusal to employ them was that they were only answerable to their own Bishop in Poland. In other words, they were out of their control.

    I found this hard to believe as there were plenty of polish priests in the country at that time.

    • Frankier,

      I wouldn’t be one bit surprised if the clergy in Galloway said (and really believed) that Polish priests were only answerable to their own bishop in Poland. Could have been an excuse to prevent bringing priests perceived to be orthodox over from Poland but it could also be sheer ignorance. Galloway is not the place to look for candidates to appear on Mastermind… 😀

      • “Galloway is not the place to look for candidates to appear on Mastermind”.

        I`m sorry now I blew my cover.

        Talking about Galloway. For anyone interested, and I know you will all be desperate to attend, the Episcopal Ordination of Bishop Nolan will take place in the Grand Hall in Kilmarnock on Saturday 14 February at 11.00 am.

        A diocese full of empty churches and they feel the need to hire a Hall in Kilmarnock. I suppose all the masonic and anti-Catholic dignitaries from East Ayrshire will have to be invited.

        Mind you, with having 3 Bishops and a few thousand Eucharistic Ministers in the diocese alone I`m surprised they didn`t hire out Ibrox.

  10. It’s disgraceful that Mgr Loftus is still writing in the Catholic press. He’s denied central doctrine of the Christian faith, such as the physical resurrection of Christ and the Real Presence. His constant attacks on the traditional Mass are appalling.

    It’s obvious that the bishop of Aberdeen is of the same mindset, otherwise he’d have been removed ages ago, so I presume the bishop also agrees with him about the Transalpine monks. How sad that they have left the SSPX to join the wolves.

  11. What an old hot air balloon! I’m too young to be interested in Loftus’ rantings and before long, he won’t have any audience alive. He’s just an old hippie.

    I now attend an SSPX chapel and it has transformed my spiritual life though I do have a long way to go. Lol. Whether or not the Bishop of Aberdeen is of the same ilk as Loftus, he should not tolerate priests in his diocese being insulted by a so-called- one of their own. However, I have to agree with the sentiments expressed above i.e. the Orkney monks have made their bed and can now lie on it. I cannot understand their lack of zeal for souls.

    • Helen,

      That is really great news about you now attending an SSPX Church and finding it has made a positive difference to your spiritual life.

      My experience has been exactly the same, since I started attending the SSPX. I have felt as though I have at last tasted fine red wine, after decades of being given Ribena and being told “its the same”.

      I still have lots to learn and many improvements to my life to make, but the difference has been phenomenal so far. To give a small example – and only to credit the SSPX priests, not to blow my own trumpet – I now try to say the Rosary daily, thanks to the priests continual encouragement. I don’t always succeed, but the very fact that I am even inclined to try is a massive difference: I didn’t even know how to say the Rosary when in the Novus Ordo Church.

      What is also inspiring about SSPX / Tradition is how devout and “serious” the lay people are about their faith. I tend to find that many Novus Ordo Catholics have a very superficial faith, almost like protestants (I was the same), and their faith is little more than a personal “feel good” mechanism for them. Certainly, it is not something which informs and guides their consciences.

      Like you, I cannot understand how callous the modern mainstream Church is, in its attitude to saving souls. To call its efforts “half-hearted” or “erroneous” would be to greatly flatter them.

      I went through 13 years of Catholic Schooling and attended the Novus Ordo up until I was 16 – and then latterly from about 28/29 to about 34/35 (when I switched to the SSPX). I would say that all of that time and experience combined doesn’t compare to attending even a single traditional mass and hearing a single homily from a Traditional priest.

      The modern Church does not teach and it does not inspire. It does not make people aware of the great necessity of the Church to their lives. All it does is pander to and flatter the things it should condemn.

  12. As has been pointed out elsewhere the good Monsignor would no doubt best described in his place of abode as an “eejit”. end of story!

    When did he move to Orkney. Last i heard he was in Moray?

    • He hasn’t moved Jacobi; the Orkney monks are the same Diocese as him, hence he has chosen to turn his guns on them.

  13. Mr Loftus, put quite simply, is a nutter. But his articles in the CT, published by Miss Flaherty, and in the SCO for that matter, are to be encouraged. Only that way will true traditionalists ever be awake to the fact that there are vicious, venomous vipers lying in wait, should the SSPX, for example, be tempted by Peter’s shilling to “go over” to Rome.

    • Sarto,

      I really dislike all expressions in the SSPX situation, such as “going over to Rome” as it gives credence to the charge of schism. Nor do I go along with the nonsensical view that Bishop Fellay should refuse to speak to “Rome” until they pass all the orthodoxy tests set by those who think Archbishop Lefebvre was wrong to say that when the Pope calls, he responds by “going to Rome”. To refuse to do so is to display a schismatic mindset, and a certain lack of common sense.

      If the Pope called me to talks, I would be on the next plane even if that made me six months early. To refuse would be, not only evidence of a schismatic mindset, but downright stupidity. And the fact that the situation in the Church is worsening and the Pope is horrendous, is all the more reason for Bishop Fellay to jump at any invitation to talks. Unless, of course, he wants God to send some other person or organisation to play a decisive part in restoring the traditional faith? But if He has given us the SSPX for that purpose, then they must be prepared to speak to “Rome” at every possible opportunity. Nothing else makes sense.

      And I, for one, would not be so arrogant as to think I ought to keep an eye on Bishop Fellay. He’s the Superior General. He’ll follow the grace of his office and if he wants my opinion – or yours – he’ll ask for it. Until then, we ought to mind our own business, do what we can to defend and promote the Faith under attack, and pray for all concerned including Bishop Fellay, who must often feel that he can’t do right for doing wrong, as the old saying goes.

  14. I am surprised that no one seemed fit to make comment on my post of 16 December regarding the ordination of the new Bishop of Galloway in a public building in Kilmarnock.

    I was unhappy when I first heard about it but maybe I`m the only person who thought it should have been (by following tradition) in a consecrated building so I hereby retract my previous statements.

    I wouldn`t wish anyone to think that I was an old fashioned traditionalist.

    • Frankier,

      I apologise for not commenting on that. Of course you are right. I cannot comment on everything, I’m afraid, and I do sometimes wonder why some of the others don’t comment on important points but that’s life. Don’t be offended. I’m sure everyone who read it got the message and perhaps meant (as I did) to comment but got caught up in other things. Many of my own posts go unremarked. In my case I just say, to myself, “phew!”

      On the point you make, sadly there may not be that much difference between a hall and a Catholic (modern) church these days. At least all the usual nonsense such as clapping etc is more fitting in a hall. Always something to be thankful for, as Pollyanna would say 😀

      • Ed

        I wasn`t referring to you knowing your circumstances. I appreciate the amount of time you do give.

        To be honest, the same thought went through my mind regarding the (very little) difference now between the modern churches and a hall. In fact, the cathedral of the Galloway diocese is a typical modern example. Anyone
        wishing to make the stations of the cross wouldn`t have a clue which side to start, although I don`t think there will be too many complaints on that score and it has been only in the last couple of years a crucifix has been installed.

    • Frankier

      I missed your original comment completely. I’ve never heard of a bishop being consecrated in a public building, it’s disgraceful. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn further that it was the local Masonic lodge! Things just go from bad to worse.

  15. Whilst I agree that the Monsignor is a crackpot, the point is that the faithful are reading and being influenced by his weekly heresies. If only for that reason alone he should be taken to task by the bishop of the diocese in which he resides, namely Bishop Hugh Gilbert.

  16. I’ve been thinking about the Orkney monks and wonder if they will return to their original stance. They are being blocked from helping souls so perhaps they will join forces with the other Stronsay priest, Fr. Nicholas Mary, SSPX, to provide the Mass of all times to the hungry faithful. I can only hope and pray because the local clergy will block them every stage of the way if they stay in their present position.

  17. I completely agree with all the comments about the Transalpine monks returning to the SSPX. I think this attack by Monsignor Loftus put together with the bishop’s silence just might make the monks think again. I do hope so. Nobody I know would think any less of them, quite the opposite. It always takes courage to turn back from a road wrongly taken – and they did so in good faith at the time, so I think everyone would admire them for saying “sorry, but this isn’t what we signed up for. We don’t want any part of the Modernism being spread from the top of the house.” I know I would sing their praises from the rooftops and I know quite a few others who would do the same.

  18. I happen to read the blog of Fr. Zulsdorf (amongst many others) and I have just read his article on the requirement…yes, “requirement” that all priests be able to read Latin. His article begins:-
    “Many are the times that I have lamented the nearly complete disobedience to the Code of Canon Law and the expressed will of modern Roman Pontiffs about the Latin language. For example, the 1983 Code of Canon Law, can. 249, requires – it doesn’t suggest or recommend or propose – that seminarians be very well trained in Latin: “lingua latina bene calleant“. Not just calleant, says can. 249, but bene calleant. Calleo is “to be practised, to be wise by experience, to be skilful, versed in” or “to know by experience or practice, to know, have the knowledge of, understand”.”
    You may wish to turn to his blog and read the whole article. It is very interesting indeed.

    • JARay,

      That’s interesting. However, we’re not fans of Fr Z here – he’s blocked more than one of us from his site just for disagreeing with him (e.g. on the use of Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion.)

      Still, thanks for that information – if you’d provided a link I would have taken a look but the thought of Googling “Fr Z” is just too much… 😀

  19. Nothing quite like traddies for getting the Latin wrong – ‘calleo’ cannot be a present infinitive, it is the first person present singular. ‘Callere’ – to know (the opposite is CTS, ‘to not know’ exactly).

    • Dowden,

      Shucks, are you clever or what? So clever, in fact, that there will be no excuse for you at your judgement for not entering the Catholic Church. No excuse whatsoever. There’ll be no mention of “calleo” – trust me… Just mention (and plenty of it) of your obstinate refusal to submit to the one, holy Catholic and apostolic Church of Christ. No matter how often you repeat “miserere” (or any other Latin word, phrase, sentence, present infinitive, first person present singular… whatever… at that stage, it will be too late. Reflect…

      PS … And shouldn’t that be “There’s no group/people quite like traddies…”?

      • Not a question of “clever” – just the very elementary rule that one construes the meaning one language by giving the equivalent grammatical form in the other. Reminds me of the blogger pontificating here on how we were all wrong on the translation of a Latin noun without seeing that the noun in question was a verb. It is really odd to see traddies clamouring to get back to the good old days of Latin without themselves having any sort of accurate grasp of the language: flogging a dead horse.

        And your notion that Christened Anglicans have not “entered” the church or need to “submit” to any foreign body (such as the Italian mission to the Irish) really is a dead horse – so far as I can discover the Roman-Catholic Church gave up on this sort of uncharitable nonsense back in the sixties.

        Do check with head office.

        • Dr John,

          Nobody needs to know Latin to want to have the Mass prayed in it. The whole point is that it is a dead language and cannot be changed the way the lingo-loonies keep changing English. Think of what “gay” used to mean! We want our prayers to God to mean the right thing, not to mean this one minute and something else the next. It doesn’t matter whether we understand every word of Latin or not, it’s God who matters, not us. The words we address to him must be orthodox. That’s the important thing. We can be confident when praying the old Mass that what God is hearing is acceptable. That’s what matters.

          The Church has always taught and always will teach that salvation is only to be found within the Catholic Church. Any Anglicans who are saved will not be saved through the Anglican church because that is a breakaway sect, broken away from Christ’s Church. “Head Office” is still teaching that, and always will.

          • I was discussing this sort of thing yesterday with a lapsed Catholic atheist who is attracted to Eastern Orthodoxy (what a combination of mixed up nonsense!). He said he liked Orthodox art and music. I explained that the Orthodox art and music is actually Catholic. It belongs to the Catholic Church. It is how the Catholic Church in eastern areas expresses itself. You see exactly the same art and hear the same music in Eastern Catholic Churches.

            By the way, the same goes for the Sacraments. A valid baptism is always Catholic baptism. The Sacraments belong to the Catholic Church. Anything in heretical and schismatic denominations that has any worth is Catholic. The rest is man made nonsense.

            • Petrus,

              Not quite accurate. Yes the Orthodox and the Anglicans and all sorts are part of the Catholic Church without being Roman Catholics (Ed: wrong. That’s not what Petrus said. They are schismatics). But historically the vast majority of the Orthodox are Russian or other Slavonic peoples. Russia owes nothing to Rome and has never been part of the Roman obedience – its liturgy, its art and its iconography owe very little to the Latin tradition. Glasgow has one (perhaps still two) Orthodox cathedrals – toddle along and see what it actually looks like and then have a think about how risible exaggerated claims are. The Roman-Catholic Church not longer makes them (if it ever actually did).
              Ed: you really cannot hide your hatred of the Catholic Church – the only Church which can trace its history right back to Christ Himself, so that, alone, reveals the ignorance in your repeated attacks on the one, true Church. One thing, though, Dowden, you deserve a medal for being a Master of the Art of Distortion (MAD)

          • When it comes to these things 1570 is not “old” is is new – the new order of Pius V has all sorts of features unknown to the Greek or Orthodox rites and misses feature of the English and Scottish Sarum rites. There is no reason to put it on a pedestal and the fact that the vast majority can make neither head nor tail of it is (as Queen Elizabeth saw back in 1570) a reason to keep a Latin text for the schools and universities but give the rest something in a “tongue understanded of the people”. Check out the official position on salvation in other “ecclesial bodies”: the RCC has moved on (or in young Mr Newman’s happy phrase) “developed” since 1958.

            Ed: if people can’t make head nor tail of the Traditional Latin Mass, how come the young are flocking to it in droves, where it is made available? I could make both head AND tail of it when I was a (slim, glamorous, highly intelligent, witty and fashionable) teenager. So, howzabout you check out the stats for Mass attendance in your neck of the woods before and after the (illicit) introduction of the vernacular Mass which, at a wild guess, I suspect will mirror the stats worldwide. If we’re talking folks not being able to make head or tail of anything, it’s why, when the Church wasn’t broke, somebody decided to “fix” it. Of course, when you really get down to studying that subject, you realise you need to have a good old read at the
            Alta Vendita at which point you realise, if you have any sense of the supernatural at all, that we are dealing here with the “principalities and powers” of whom St Paul warned have the intention of destroying Christ’s Church and who are too stupid and faithless to know that they cannot succeed.

            • Dowden

              Actually, the Roman Rite predates all other liturgies. It is often thought that the eastern rites are older. Not so. It stretches back to at least St Gregory the Great and even further into antiquity. There is no rites as venerable and ancient as the Roman Rite.

    • I feel that I must point out that I only quoted a part of what Fr. Zulsdorf is saying and I suggest that when he says”Calleo is “to be practised, to be wise by experience, to be skilful,” he is not exactly giving a Latin lesson he has merely given the first word of the conjugation of the verb “Calleo, callere, callui etc”, which, by the way, can also mean “to be thick skinned” and he does point out, further on in his article, that we get the English word “Callus” from it which is the thickening of the skin!!!
      But the whole point is that it does mean “to be wise, to be well informed etc. etc.
      But then, dear Doctor, you may be well versed in calluses, also!

      • I don’t doubt that the mistake was Fr Z’s rather than yours and I entirely agree that it would be unwise of him to get into the business of giving Latin lessons. Fact remains that there is no sense in trying to revive dead provisions of a dead law code on the use of a dead language when those who propose the revival cannot quite construe the language themselves. It may be a pity that the ability to use Latin in liturgy has died but died it has. There will always be odd corners where archaeological reconstructions are possible – especially where specialist groups and authentic music is involved – but for better or worse it is now a minority interest. Latin is not gallus these days.

        • Dr John,

          Latin is the official language of the Church to this day and the Latin liturgy is anything but dead. That’s what bothers nutcases like Mgr Loftus.

  20. I know people who have had Mgr Loftus in their parish for Mass on supply when their priest was away. The mother says her teenage children embarrass her because they make comments through his homily. When she’s told them off, they’re pointed out that he says things that are not right – they have sufficient knowledge of their religion to know when something is way out. She told me a while back that they sometimes read this blog, so maybe that’s helped!

  21. Mgr Loftus is outrageous in the way he criticises conservative priests and bishops. He has been really ugly about Cardinal Burke, so it is not surprising that he has also attacked the Papa Stronsay community. He hates the old rite Mass so anyone who is associated with it, is a target for his weekly rant in the Catholic Times.

    I know people up north who would love it if the monks on Papa Stronsay were to make the break from the diocese again. I think they would be more feared then and they would have more influence.

    • Danielle & others who have expressed the same opinion about “The Return of the Papa Stronsay Monks” – I agree wholeheartedly.

      Come back, Fathers and Brothers – we need you! Christ’s Church needs you!

  22. Yes, we need them alright. I wonder what possessed them to “reconcile” in the first place? They have shackled themselves at a time when the faithful most need them.

  23. In some ways I can understand why they “reconciled”. Being in an irregular place regarding Mother Church is not a comfortable place to be. Then when the Summorum Pontificum was issued, they must have felt that things would be alright for them and other traditionalist groups; and it might have been, but for the the defection of Pope Benedict. But surely now they can see that they cannot provide much of an apostolate being kept at bay by the hierarchy and priests alike?

    The bishop doesn’t want them roaming about in his modernist diocese and that’s for sure. Even when there exists “stable groups” asking for the old liturgy, the bishop only seems to allow it on weekdays or, if there’s an SSPX threat nearby, on a Sunday as has happened in Aberdeen. The duplicity is diabolical.

    Personally, my family have just given up on these prelates and now worship (when possible) in peace at an SSPX Mass.

    • Crofterlady,

      I agree – looking back, a case could certainly be made to excuse (for want of a better word) their “reconciliation” (to which I was unequivocally hostile at the time) but equally, things are now so much worse that it is difficult to see how they can justify the current situation. I really hope that the Mgr Loftus attack and loud silence from the Bishop will make them re-think their position, in favour of returning to the Church Militant – with bells on!

      It’s good that your family now attend SSPX Masses – I think more and more people are turning to the Society in response to the shenanigans of Papa Francis.

  24. Well, I still have sympathy for the Redemptorists. However, rather than expecting that they should go back to their pre-reconciliation-with-Rome standards, I would like them to live up to the ideals of St. Alphonsus. The main concern for St. Aphonsus, in his day, was not to fight against the prevalent heresies of his day, but rather he was very concerned about the country folk not being properly catechized. He formed his missioners with the proper teachings of the Catholic faith, so that he could preach to the poor country folk. I don’t see that the Archdiocese of Aberdeen is even allowing them to do that, for the most part. I’m not too concerned with the harsh words from Mgr. Loftus. The Redemptorists are used to the animosity from modernists in Scotland. That’s nothing new. We have to expect that if we are to adhere to the Old Mass, and older Church teachings. It may get worse before it gets better.

    • Marsaili,

      You kidding me? Have you READ any of the sermons of St Alphonsus? If you think that great saint, bishop and Doctor of the Church would be going along to git along in the midst of this, the greatest crisis ever to hit Christ’s Church, then you need help. Click here if you don’t believe me and trawl some of those sermons. The titles alone tell us all we need to know about how St Alphonsus would be dealing with the scandals in which Holy Mother Church is currently engulfed.

      As to how the teachings of the Church can possibly be “older” than the Mass… eh? The Mass was instituted on Holy Thursday – you don’t get much “older” than that.

      Oh and I fear you’ve missed the point about Mgr Loftus. “Harsh words” from him is not the issue. The fact that the Monsignor is permitted to attack, in print read UK-wide, a fellow priest in the diocese without the Bishop raising his voice, tells us all we need to know about the fruits of the so called “reconciliation.” What actually happened, clearly, is that the diocese scored a goal in getting the monks to abandon the fight “outside the walls” (but clearly within the Church, unless St Athanasius really WAS excommunicated x twice) in order to achieve the appearance of being united within the diocese. Clearly the monks are not wanted there (I could write more, since I’ve heard plenty on the grapevine, but will – uncharacteristically – say nothing.) Therefore, I think they would be well advised to say “thanks Bishop of Aberdeen, we did our bit but it just didn’t work out. See you after the Consecration of Russia.”

      I mean, can you IMAGINE St Alphonsus remaining silent in the face of this sort of scandal?

    • Clearly, you didn’t read the list of his sermons where just about every heresy in the book is covered – not least his sermon on the false understanding of mercy – one of the heresies with which we are becoming increasingly familiar these days.

      So let’s dispense with the semantics. St Alphonsus preached the Faith in its fullness and would never in a million years have remained silent in the face of reports about a Pope who has made known his love for an erotic dance and permitted it to be performed (a) in the sanctuary when he was Cardinal in Argentina and (b) in St Peter’s Square. And his sermons also covered the dangers of false religions so he’d definitely have been addressing the heresies of ecumenism, inter-faith dialogue were he alive today.

      I notice you didn’t answer my question – do you really think St Alphonsus would remain silent in the face of the scandals we are enduring today? The Tango in St Peter’s Square and before the Tabernacle? Ecumenism? Inter-Faith Dialogue – WOULD he remain silent?

      • Thank you, but since you did not answer the question, I see no reason to comment further on the subject. I’m not a big fan of immanantism (emotional conjecture). God bless you this Advent season.

        • Marsaili,

          “Which heresies did St. Alphonsus actively fight against and publically speak out about?”

          This is a very strange question, IMHO. Is there an example you could give of another saint who fixated on one particular heresy at a time when there were lots of heresies?

          I was also looking forward to your answer to editor’s question about Saint Alphonsus and would he keep silent in the face of the scandals in the Church today. I think not, but would like to know what you think.

  25. Do have a look at the latest Loftus outpouring in this week’s SCO …

    Happy Christmas to Editor and all CT bloggers!

    • Pew Catholic,

      Put us out of our misery and tell us, or your Christmas bonus will be donated to a lost cause such as the movement for the ordination of women – ouch!

      • Oh, he’s just repeating all the Synod stuff about mercy. He also says ‘we must loosen up Liturgically’. His last sentence is a beauty:’The Church is changing, and if we are to be faithful to it, we must change with it.’

        Happy Christmas!

  26. Maybe this stupid old man should have a read of Rorate Caeli blog where an article informs us the stupid old men of the Franciscan Order who are busy “stamping themselves out”….apparently they are stony broke after some dubious financial dealings……is there anyone in the church of vatican II capable of operating a whelk stall

    • Crouchback

      Very good! Yes, maybe the Franciscans are getting their just desserts for what they did to the Franciscans of the Immaculate! Our Lord is certainly not pleased, that’s for sure.

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