“By their fruits…” SSPX Growing

Catholic Tradition just won’t stop growing! Vocations continue to steadily abound within the SSPX, as do families at its chapels—where the youth are usually predominant.

It’s undeniable that the Society of St. Pius X (and thus the movement of Catholic Tradition) continues by the grace of God to steadily grow throughout the world—and the statistics prove it!

statisticsHere at SSPX.ORG, we have created a new page that provides some general statistics about the SSPX, just updated with the most recent information available. In addition to links for 2 colorful maps showing the Society’s international and national work, we also have some basic info about some traditional communities and independent chapels that are closely affiliated with us.

We would also like to direct our readers to the colorful charts being offered at FSSPX.ORG (website of the General House in Menzingen, Switzerland) which graphically demonstrate the increasing presence of the SSPX throughout the world. Note some of the captions are in French.

It is also noteworthy that the first graph gives a total of 589 priests, while our general statistics gives a figure of 590—in anticipation of the priestly ordination that will take place in Post Falls, Idaho tomorrow (Saturday, September 20). Please keep this young alter Christus in your prayers!

Another item that might interest our readers is the addition of the English translation of all 3 founding documents of the Society of St. Pius X. Images of the actual original documents in French and Latin have been included as well as some pertinent links about their historical context and importance.  Source

 Comment

If “By their fruits shall ye know them” means anything, it means that the SSPX is being greatly blessed by God.  This has implications for Catholics everywhere who are concerned to protect and deepen their faith in the midst of this, the worst ever crisis to afflict the Church. Spot the implications – ready, steady, GO! 

76 responses

  1. I have already spotted a wee mistake on the FSSPX statistics from the General House. According to the graphs there are 55 seminarians in the USA, whereas on SSPX.org, there are, apparently, 71 seminarians. Likewise I have some stats that I previously obtained from the General House that said there were 183 Sisters, and 125 Brothers, whereas according to these new stats there are 170 and 103 respectively.

    Needless to say I’m very happy to see such sustained growth. A sure sign of Heavenly favour if ever there was one.

    However, I don’t like the little straw poll above, ‘every Catholic should attend the SSPX chapel’. I’m a staunch supporter of the FSSP and Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest, for their commitment to the Traditional Mass and liturgical excellence, and the more they grow the better, along with the SSPX. The FSSP does good work in France, and it has 244 Priests and 153 seminarians. Whilst I admit that they are somewhat beholden to the Diocesan authorities, they do preach solid traditional doctrines in their sermons. However, I have it on good authority that the FSSP Priests in France and Belgium speak regularly of the crisis in the Church. ALL traditional groups have their own equal part to play in the restoration of tradition.

    • Catholic Convert 1,

      It says in the article that these are the most up to date stats which will be why there are now 71 instead of 55 seminarians. That doesn’t explain the discrepancy in the number of religious brothers and sisters but maybe you could ask if there has been a mistake?

      I do not agree with you about the SSPX being on a par with the other traditional groups. The big difference, IMHO, is that they wouldn’t be in existence but for the SSPX and that puts the SSPX way in the lead right off, plus they are truly divorced from all modernism whereas I don’t think the others are. France is different, though, because there’s a strong traditional movement there so the other priests may feel more confident in speaking out but I’ve never attended an indult or Summorum Pontificum Mass here in Scotland or England and heard the crisis mentioned, not once. There has to be a reason why the hierarchy hate the SSPX but allow the FSSP and ICK and my guess is that the former challenge them to preach the whole faith whereas the others don’t.

      So I voted YES in the poll that all Catholics who can do should attend the SSPX chapels.

      • Michaela,

        I agree – if we can make it to an SSPX chapel we definitely should attend. It’s not always possible though and in those cases I think supporting the other traditional orders is OK.

      • I didn’t say they were on a par, I merely stated that they do excellent work, though I do concede that I should have qualified it by saying ‘given the circumstances’. You will have, I am sure, noticed that I said they are beholden to Diocesan authorities.

    • Catholic Convert 1,

      How do the SSPX stats compare with the dioceses in the UK for vocations, and how do they compare with the FSSP and ICKSP?

      • Nicky,

        At present there are 185 Diocesan Seminarians in England and Wales. The actual figure is over 200 if you count the Seminarians for religious orders. There were 38 ordinations this year.

        • CC,

          It’s interesting to read this piece about the dramatic statistical decline of the Church in England and Wales, penned by Michael Davies. It was Michael Davies’ work on the stats – which he took to one of his meetings in Rome with Cardinal Ratzinger – that really shook the future Pope Benedict and brought him to realise that the UK hierarchy were lying through their teeth when they claimed that the Church here was healthy.

          Unfortunately, however, that inside and factual knowledge didn’t stop Pope Benedict from ending his later visit to England with a statement to the effect that he found the Church in this part of the world to be thriving. My immediate comment on hearing this astonishing assessment was a simple… Eh? I do have a way with words, or so they tell me 😀

  2. I agree in general with Michaela, the SSPX alone stands bravely before the Church’s authorities to defend both liturgy and doctrine. Had it not been for this immovable position there would be no FSSP, ICK or any other Tradition-leaning institution in the Church today. These were set up originally with the intention of winning SSPX supporters away from the SSPX; the hope being that the SSPX would cease to exist and the new groups would then slowly disintegrate or be shut down.

    Well, Our Lord had other plans. Not only did the SSPX continue to grow but so did these other institutions, the latter at least preserving the true Mass and consequently expanding in numbers of priests, seminarians and faithful. What is clear, however, is that the Ecclesia Dei groups are paralysed when it comes to speaking out against the doctrinal, sometimes even moral, errancy of bishops they have made themselves dependent upon for existence. Such is the tragedy that results from a false distinction between true and false obedience to one’s superiors.

    Having said this, it is clear that many Traditional Catholics of good will attend Mass at the chapels of these groups rather than continue attending the New Mass. That has to be good news, as is the fact that more and more priests and seminarians in the Church are coming to a greater knowledge and love of the Traditional liturgy, which has the knock-on effect of opening their eyes to other problems in the Church since Vatican II. I have personally attended Mass at FSSP, ICK and Traditional parishes while on holiday and unable to get to an SSPX chapel.

    In summation, it is obvious that the SSPX is by far the preferred choice for Traditional Catholics who have the wherewithal to attend its chapels. For those who cannot get to an SSPX chapel, or who may be scrupulous in conscience in the matter of obedience, then the FSSP, ICK, or other Traditional Mass group is certainly a much better option than their local Novus Ordo parish.

  3. Some protestant evangelical “churches” are growing at a great rate. Is that a sign they too are “…being greatly blessed by God”?

    • No. The growth experienced by the evangelicals is a sure sign of the diabolical disorientation prophesied by Our Blessed Lady at Fatima in 1917. It is also part of the Satanic masterplan, whereby the Father of lies propagates his chief errors by tempting people away with temporal, material and sensual pleasures, as evidenced by the nature of evangelical services, with music, lots of clapping, nice big shiny churches and charismatic ministers, who usually expound prosperity theology, such as the message of Oral Roberts who interpreted Christ as saying ‘I am come that they may have life, and may have it more abundantly’ (John 10:10), as a justification for rampant capitalism. That’s how the Devil works. Just as he showed Christ all the kingdoms under the sun, he tempts men in the same way. St. Paul sums up evangelical ministers, along with other cockle sowers, when he said in 2 Corinthians 11:14, ‘And no wonder: for Satan himself transformeth himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers be transformed as the ministers of justice, whose end shall be according to their works’.

      The SSPX on the otherhand has 2,000 years of truth behind it.

      That’s all folks!

    • Eileenanne,

      I’m actually surprised that you would think that or suggest that the growth of Protestantism in whatever guise is evidence that Protestantism is “greatly blessed by God” which is what your rhetorical question appears to imply.

      Everything we write about “good fruits” and “God’s grace” being evident in a particular work, is rooted / contextualised in the elementary truth that Christ founded one Church through which He has chosen to dispense His grace and shower good fruits. Thus, we can see that the diocesan parishes are closing and/or merging all over the place. What was it, 45 parishes closing in Glasgow alone? There is no authentic growth anywhere in the diocesan churches. God, it seems, is not blessing – greatly or otherwise – those who are institutionalising the departure from Catholic Tradition within His Church. Those, on the other hand, who are preserving and treasuring Catholic Tradition are manifestly enjoying God’s blessing.

      I hope that clarifies the matter for you. Just as it’s not because God has blessed a particular crime – say robbery – that the gang netted a few million quid, so it’s not because God has blessed evangelical Protestants that they are attracting more followers. The reason for that will become crystal clear to the Catholic hierarchy at their judgement. Get it now? 😉

    • Eileenanne,

      No, that’s people just continuing their partying from the night before. It’s all emotionalism.

  4. I’ve just sent a message to Monsignor Marcus Stock, the new Bishop of Leeds concerning the diabolically poor provision of the tlm in the Leeds Diocese. Here it is:

    ‘Dear Father Marcus Stock,

    As I begin my email to you, I would like to strongly congratulate you on your recent appointment by the Holy Father to be the Bishop of Leeds. I assure you of a remembrance in my daily Rosary, that God will bless you in your ministry in our diocese. Our Lord and Our Lady will, I am sure, invoke their blessing of joy and peace upon you.

    However, I am writing to you to express certain concerns regarding our diocese, and that is the provision of the Traditional Mass, commonly known as the Tridentine Mass. In my opinion, the provision of Mass in this rite is minimal, and they are often said in the evening or on other times of the day when most people are either at work, studying or fulfilling family obligations. The only place where the Traditional Mass is said daily is at Broughton Hall in Skipton. The only other Church where it is offered each Sunday is at Castleford and this is at 3pm. Other places where the Mass is offered include:

    St. Mary’s Church, Halifax on Saturdays at 6pm
    •Holy Spirit Church, Heckmondwike on every 1st and 3rd Sunday at 4pm
    •St. Peter’s Church, Laisterdyke, Bradford on every 2nd Sunday at 3pm
    •Leeds University chaplaincy on every 5th Saturday at 4pm
    •Immaculate Heart of Mary Church, Moortown Leeds on every 1st Friday at 7.30pm

    For many people it is simply not feasible to travel to these areas, due to finance and other reasons, some of which I mentioned above. Therefore, please could you consider, after assuming your esteemed office, establishing a permanent weekly Tridentine Mass at Leeds Cathedral, either on a Saturday or Sunday morning, to enable people to attend it, due to the excellent transport connections that Leeds has with other towns and cities? It would, in my opinion, be exceptionally important to, and a gesture of friendship and reconciliation with, the traditionalist community and those with a devotion to this rite.

    I hope that you appreciate the various points which I have made, and please remember me in your prayers.

    Yours sincerely in the Two Hearts’

    I will, of course, keep you informed if and when he replies.

    • CC,

      Great letter. Well done.

      Please do keep us informed – if you receive a positive reply we’ll all be delighted. If a negative reply, we will simply note “business as usual”…

  5. CC

    A very good letter. It will be interesting to see if you get a favourable response, if indeed you get a response at all.

    • Good letter or not, it does not contain a notification or warning to the Bishop that the letter might be published, as might any reply.
      Unless advised otherwise the recipient of a letter may assume that the correspondence is private.
      At the same time, of course, no one in present times should put anything in writing or on a recording device unless they are comfortable about seeing it on the front page of the Daily Record.

      • Andrew Paterson,

        Why on EARTH would anyone be one bit bothered by the publication of such a clear and perfectly legitimate letter? It’s not as if CC is revealing dark secrets of any kind is it? He didn’t mark his letter “Strictly Private & Confidential” did he? Was CC rude? Uncharitable? Hostile? Nope.

        On the contrary, he congratulates the new bishop on his appointment and – courteously – expresses concern that the TLM is not readily accessible in its current locations, and – again courteously – asks for the provision of a Sunday TLM at an accessible location – the scandal, if scandal there is in all of this, is that it takes a new convert to the Faith to make the request, which I suspect is the case.

        If someone wrote me such a courteous letter expressing any concerns about anything to do with our newsletter, website or blog, and then posted it on another blog, I would not think a thing about it. Heck, I’d probably never know, unless you spilt the beans. And something tells me that the Daily Record is not going to find its journalists fighting over who should cover the story of The Convert’s Letter to the Bishop of Leeds…Asking for a Traditional Latin Mass… It’s not exactly “hot off the press” stuff, is it?

        Why on EARTH – as I asked above – would anyone be at all bothered by the publication of such a good, courteous and positive letter?

        With bated breath NOT I await your answer. I’m having to go offline now but look forward to reading your rationale as and when.

      • Andrew, I fail to see why anyone writing to his bishop – asking for the Mass to be offered more widely in the diocese – should “warn” their bishop that their letter might be published.
        It is the bishops job to ensure that the Liturgy of the Mass is provided! I really do not get your point?

      • Andrew Paterson,

        In so general a matter as provision of the Tridentine rite of Mass no bishop should fear publication of their reply to letters from the faithful, unless of course they are denying the Catholic faithful what is just and don’t want the world to know about it.

      • Andrew,

        That’s the problem in this day and age. Secrecy! Why does everything have to be so cloak and dagger? As other commentators have said, it contains nothing private or controversial, just a reasonable request for the traditional Mass. I have always published letters sent to Bishops and their replies on this blog, and will continue to do so.

        if you think I’ll do otherwise…think, think, think. And when you’ve done that….think again!!!

        • To all who responded to my comment.
          You all disagree with me. That is fair enough. I made my point in my comment; That correspondence is private – not “secret” – unless advised otherwise.

          • Andrew Paterson

            There can be no such thing as private correspondence in a matter of public interest. There’s a difference between writing to a bishop to invite him to tea and writing to ask why “the faithful” are being deprived of their birth right. I hope you can see the important distinction.

            • Athanasius,

              I agree. Public figures know that there is no such thing as private correspondence with people who contact them on official business.

            • The Liturgy of the Holy Eucharist is in the Uk celebrated publically daily, and on Sunday several times. There is more than adequate provision for all the faithful to attend in churches and chapels the length hand breadth of the country. If individuals chose not to attend, even when obligated to the Bishops cannot be held responsible for individual decisions made. Stop bleating and whingeing about lack of provision of the daily Eucharist. You CHOOSE not to go for whatever reason. Blame only yourself!!

              • Domchas,

                I notice you use the expression “Liturgy of the Holy Eucharist” when writing of the Mass. Here’s what Archbishop Lefebvre had to say about that manifest error:

                “One has to accept that the liturgical reform tends to replace the idea and the reality of the Sacrifice by the reality of the meal. That is how one comes to speak of eucharistic celebration or of a “supper”; but the expression “Sacrifice” is much less used. It has almost totally disappeared from catechism handbooks just as it has from sermons. It is absent from Canon No 2, attributed to St. Hyppolytus.

                This tendency is connected to what we have discovered concerning the Real Presence: if there is no longer a sacrifice, there is no longer any need for a victim. The victim is present in view of the sacrifice. To make of the Mass a memorial or fraternal meal is the Protestant error. What happened in the 16th century? Precisely what is taking place today. Right from the start they replaced the altar with a table, removed the crucifix from it, and made the “president of the assembly” turn round to face the congregation.

                Luther understood very clearly that the Mass is the heart and soul of the Church. He said: “Let us destroy the Mass and we shall destroy the Church”. Now we can see that the Novus Ordo Missae, that is to say the new order adopted after the Council, has been drawn up along Protestant lines, or at any rate dangerously close to them…Luther has said: “Worship used to be addressed to God as a homage, henceforth it will be addressed to man to console and enlighten him. The sacrifice used to have pride of place, but now the sermon will supplant it”. That signified the introduction of the cult of man, and in the Church, the importance accorded to the “liturgy of the word”. If we open the new missals, this revolution has been accomplished in them too…”

                I could go on at length with this excellent dissection of the New Mass by Archbishop Lefebvre, but I think enough has been said to show that the new Mass is dangerous to the Catholic Faith. It undermines that faith by degrees by its Protestant spirit, resulting in eventual loss of belief in Transubstantiation and the Real Presence, which in turn leads to such sacrilegious novelties as Communion in the hand. The bitter fruits of the new Mass are there for all who have eyes to see!

                • The liturgy of the Holy Eucharist, is the Sacrifice of Calvary, always has been always will be, in whatever form it is celebrated. You should know that!! Quoting a long dead prelate of the church, who as known to have serious mental health problems through this life, is not especially helpful to the debate ct bloggers want to continue. Simply go to Mass to praise God in Latin or in English and be extremely thankful that inthis country you not only have the freedom to do so but have a choice which form to go to!

                  • Domchas,

                    “Quoting a long dead prelate of the church, who as known to have serious mental health problems through this life..”

                    Are you alleging that Archbishop Lefebvre had “serious mental health problems through his life”? And that without providing a shred of evidence? Because, of course, there is none…

                    Well here’s something for you to take to your solicitor…

                    Your posts on this blog have suggested time and again that YOU have serious mental health problems beginning with a lack of elementary intelligence.

                    Evidence, you say? Check out any one of your posts which – like the one posted here at 12.42.am to which I am now responding – are full of wacky claims which you never (because you cannot) substantiate. You come across, Domchas, as a real fruit and nut case. I’ve tried over the years not to say this, as my Guardian Angel will testify and anyone who’s met me for coffee in the past decade, but it’s gloves off time now. For your own spiritual welfare, you understand. I’m not (only) giving vent to my fury at your latest assault on a saintly traditional Archbishop, but trying to help you see the error of your ways, Sugar Plum. Please appreciate my selflessness in your regard…

                    Archbishop Lefebvre will one day be a canonised saint and a Doctor of the Church. The world will know who he was and his vital contribution to the crisis in the Church in our times.

                    “Domchas” – on the other hand – will be remembered – if remembered at all – only for his frustration, modernism, defence of the indefensible, not to mention his ignorance of just about everything we’ve ever discussed on this blog.

                    I normally wouldn’t dream of making such personal remarks, as it’s against our house-rules, but since (in the spirit of Groucho Marx) I made them up, I’m glad to make an exception in your case. 😀

                    Archbishop Lefebvre had no mental health problems, serious or otherwise. He was a hero of Vatican II and is, undoubtedly, destined to be a canonised saint and Doctor of the Church one day. Live with it.

                  • Domchas

                    “A long dead prelate of the Church, known to have serious mental health problems…”

                    Your bad intentions are patently clear from that single wicked statement. I will not debate further with you.

  6. One of the SSPX priests in Scotland told a group of us after Mass one day that looking down (from the pulpit!) on the congregation in the Glasgow chapel on Sundays is like looking at a can of sardines. He was, I assure you one and all, speaking of numbers not intelligence! Say nothing!

  7. Editor

    Dare I say that story sounds a bit fishy! Joking of course, as I was one of the sardines in question. Aye! It does the heart good to be compared to a dead fish! Joking again! I know, the jokes are a load of old codswallop.

  8. The continued growth of the Society is pleasing and reassuring.

    I attended the SSPX Church in Liverpool last Sunday; we had been away a few days and I had the opportunity to make a short detour for Sunday mass, on the drive home.

    As I understand, the Society only acquired this Church (Sts Peter and Paul) last year – it is good that the Society is making progress in the UK as well as further afield.

    The Church building previously belonged to “3rd Church of Christ Scientist” – whatever the blazes that is/was?! Inside the building was attractive, (though not conventionally Catholic), enjoying much better natural light than the exterior suggested. I spied early on that the building has an organ and this was played for the recessional hymn.

    There was a healthy (and friendly!) congregation and the mass was said by Fr Vandandaele. The building is much more spacious than St Andrews and it was a joy to be able to “circle around” the pews after communion, to return to our seats (so much better than the infamous central aisle crush at St Andrews!).

    I thought it was interesting that they also used the “Leeds Hymnal” in addition to the SSPX Hymnal which we have in Glasgow.

    It was the first time I have visited an SSPX Church other than in Glasgow – it was a pleasure to see the Society thriving elsewhere in the UK too. It was also the first time I had visited Liverpool and it was a beautiful sunny day. A very pleasant way to spend a few hours of an afternoon 🙂

    • Gabriel Syme,

      That’s very interesting about your Liverpool visit. I am sure we have readers who attend the Society chapel there (we definitely have readers in Liverpool) but I presume you’d have mentioned meeting them if they had had the pleasure 😀

    • Gabriel Syme, the church in Liverpool was a Christian Science church and if they only have one church in town it is called the 1st Church of Christ Scientists. Each additional church would be numbered so the fact that this one was the 3rd church means that they had another two churches in Liverpool.

      It’s nice to visit other SSPX churches (I once visited the previous church in Liverpool) so why don’t you come and pay the Edinburgh church a visit sometime?

      • Vianney,

        Not really intending to continue the “fishy” theme, but are you trying to poach Gabriel Syme, a longstanding (well he IS tall) member of the Glasgow Mass community?

        • Editor, all’s fair in love and war as they say and all I’m doing is being a fisher of men as Our Good Lord said we should be. Anyway, we’ve got 300 seats to fill and work is starting on the Cry Room at the beginning of next month so lots of room for bairns.

          • Vianney,

            I hope you are joking about the cry room – I absolutely do not think they are a good thing at all. I’ve seen first hand how even very small children can be taught before and during Mass (and afterwards with visits to side altars to light candles) how the behave at Mass. Anyone who objects to babies crying during Mass should go off to the nearest novus ordo where cry rooms are the norm.

            • Editor, it’s not intended to segregate the children from the rest of the congregation for the entire Mass. At the moment if a child becomes very noise, especially during the sermon, one of the parents will take them out to the crush room (the room between the chapel and the vestibule.) This means that the parent is cut off from what is going on in the chapel and the plan is to replace the existing wall between the crush room and the chapel with a new one with windows that will allow them to follow the Mass. It’s also for security. As you know, our chapel is on a busy street and often during Mass you can here the door opening but nobody appears in the chapel. Now most of the times it’s just someone who sees the door open and come in and them sees there is a Mass being celebrated and goes away again, but there is always the chance that it could be someone who is up to no good and this will allow the Passkeepers to keep an eye on things without having to get up from their seats and go out to see who’s there.

              Only one person moans about the children making a noise but everyone else just get’s on with things. As one person put it, if you have greetin’ bairns then your church is alive.

              • Oh well, I suppose that’s reasonable. My memory of cry rooms is a bunch of mothers chatting and children playing with toys. If that happens, then it’s curtains for that generation of children. Do you want me to start attending Edinburgh to supervise the cry room? OK. Consider it done 😀

                • If you start attending in Edinburgh you’ll accuse me of poaching another Glasgow person. But by all means come and supervise, we can tell the bairns you’re the Bogey Wummen come to make sure they behave.

                  • Vianney,

                    No offence intended, but crying rooms ain’t Catholic. Sorry to state the obvious but you won’t find a single church pre-council that had crying rooms. It’s a thoroughly modernist development, as are boxes of toys to keep the kids quiet.

                    Now, what do you think a child will do if it gets torn away from its toys to be taken into church for Mass? Exactly! It’s going to scream its head off until someone takes it out of church and back to the toys. I’m totally opposed to these innovations because children are anything but daft; they know well how to milk a situation. Besides that, lots of different kids slobbering over the same soft toys is unhygienic.

                    I just can’t get my head around why some families have young children who behave very well and others have brats who continue to disrupt congregations right up to about age 10. Why is that?

                    I should say here that I am not referring to sensible parents who remove lively or crying infants from church. I’m talking about parents who go to church with no intention of ever teaching their kids to behave and pray during Mass.

                    It seems to me to be older children who disrupt more often than babies. Let’s not encourage that further by pampering them and their clueless parents! Sorry, a wee bit strong there in my comments, but no wonder.

                    • Athanasius,

                      I do actually wonder at your strong comments about noisy children at Mass because I know you feel strongly about speaking with great respect for popes and prelates who are doing everything in their power to destroy the Church so calling children “brats” who are doing nothing worse than being a bit disruptive during Mass (if that is true) really is OTT – if you don’t mind me saying so

                      I’ve never met a parent who didn’t want to keep their children under control at Mass but it’s not easy, and I’ve even seen parents smack their children after warning them, only to then have them scream the place down

                      I know from experience how difficult it is to keep small children quiet and still – my sympathy is all for the parents and not for the complainers, I’m afraid as we are all adults and old enough to know about offering up little annoyances, as taught by the Little Flower, and that is bound to be more pleasing to God than if there was nothing to distract us or at least nobody to blame for our distractions as we’ll always be distracted, that’s human nature

                    • I seem to remember a similar conversation on this blog some time ago. I think it was Athanasius who spoke about “screaming children”. Well, we visit, from time to time, both Edinburgh and Glasgow chapels and have never witnessed bad behaviour. Sometimes an infant may cry and one of the parents takes him or her out. As for little children, they were very well behaved. For seriously bad behaviour visit a N.O. Mass!

                      I agree that “crying Rooms” are not Catholic but I also would like to point out (as my mother says) pre Vatican 2 there were no such things as there was no need; there were so many Masses available that babies just weren’t brought to Mass.

                    • Athanasius, I don’t know about cry rooms not being Catholic but I have to disagree about them not existing before Vatican II. The first time I came across them was when I was in America a few years ago at the SSPX chapel in Phoenix. I mentioned to an elderly lady that I had never heard of them before and asked if it was new concept. “On the contrary” she said, and told me that she used them with her children in the early 1950s, so it looks like it’s probably an American thing and most SSPX chapels in the States have them.

                      I think that most parents probably feel very embarrassed when their children start making noises during Mass and it doesn’t really help matters if there is someone tutting and shaking their heads, or as I’ve witnessed, moving to another part of the chapel. This can only add to the embarrassment and could even drive people away from the chapel feeling that they and their children are unwelcome. Our Lord said “suffer the little children” and it’s very un-Christian if we make people feel unwelcome. Those of us who don’t have children don’t always appreciate what parents are going through.

                      When a child is making a noise or misbehaving and mum or dad takes it out they are cut off from the rest of the congregation, are isolated and miss most of the Mass. As I pointed out in an earlier post, the cry room in the Edinburgh chapel would allow parents to continue to follow the Mass and still feel involved. It would not be an isolated room but right at the back between the chapel and the vestibule and so everyone going in and out of the chapel would have to pass through it. It is also a security measure to allow the Passkeepers to see if anyone is loitering and up to no good.

  9. If anyone hasn’t yet watched the documentary on the life of Archbishop Lefebvre they really should.

    http://angeluspress.org/lefebvre-documentary
    (Surprisingly, I couldn’t find it at Carmel Books)

    Towards the end, one of the Archbishop’s sisters recalls how completely unperturbed he was when they were discussing the long term outlook for the Society. To paraphrase, trusting in Divine Providence, the Archbishop stated that if it was pleasing to God, the Society would thrive. If not, it would perish.

    I think I read some time ago that the number of priests in the Society was about 400 at the time of the 1988 consecrations. So, since then we are talking about a roughly 50% increase. I believe that something like 16 priests actually left for the FSSP at the time of the consecrations, compared with the possibility of 85% doing so, as suggested in a report compiled by Cardinal Gagnon!

    The following has been posted on this blog before, but I think it bears repetition.

    I think everyone here knows what took place twenty six years ago, on June 30 1988, at Econe. On the same day that Archbishop Lefebvre, in his own words, “handed on what I have received”, in order to continue the work of traditional priestly formation, an 18 page document was published in Rome which, whatever the intent behind it and the justifications given, could not but help to undermine the sacred Catholic priesthood. The document allowed bishops to develop programs whereby deacons or appointed lay people would lead Sunday prayer services.

    http://www.sspxasia.com/Documents/Archbishop-Lefebvre/Archbishop_Lefebvre_and_the_Vatican/Part_II/1988-06-30.htm

    Yes, twenty six years ago, while Archbishop Lefebvre was trying to provide pastors and the means of salvation for Catholic souls, Rome was providing for the absence of priests.

    • Leo,

      Everyone I know who has seen the documentary about the Archbishop has praised it warmly. I must see it asap.

      I think your concluding quote says it all, really…

      “Yes, twenty six years ago, while Archbishop Lefebvre was trying to provide pastors and the means of salvation for Catholic souls, Rome was providing for the absence of priests.”

      In the proverbial nutshell!

    • Margaret Mary,

      True, the response of the SSPX to the Oklahoma Black Mass is indeed very powerful. In making such a public reparation for what was done, the SSPX is very Catholic.

      A pity there are those who will still claim that the SSPX are schismatic.

    • Michaela,

      I agree it looks like good news although remembering what Cardinal Muller said before about the Society, the wonderful Bishop Fellay will be on red alert.

  10. Vianney, beware! we are returning to visit Edinburgh next week. Yours is a lovely BIG church with room to breathe. I think we will avoid the Glasgow one in future as not only does the toilet door not lock properly, but the crush in the seats (especially for someone with a medical problem) is very difficult :):):)

    • The toilet door in the Ladies DOES lock properly in Glasgow. I will show you next time. And if you come in time before Mass begins you can sit in my place at the front, where there is no crush, just a baby who wants cuddled all the time! She is removed fairly quickly most weeks anyway so we can arrange for her big sister to disappear with her (to the back) even earlier, to allow you to settle in comfortably – that’s two seats available in the front row, so don’t say we’re not helpful in Glasgow AND we always say “you’ll have your tea of course” whereas in Edinburgh they’ll say “You’ll have HAD your tea, of course…”!

      • Editor, people are complaining there’s not enough room in the Glasgow chapel and now you’re encouraging someone to take up two seats. The poor soul might get lynched, even before he’s had his tea.

    • I might have guessed that someone with an Eastern username would want to defect to the East of Scotland. Olaf, get a grip! the Wise men travelled from East to West, not the other way around. And I’ll bet they had more covering them than just a fur coat! Shift the letters around in your name and use your Loaf; it’s a medical problem you have, not a mental one!

      Vianney,

      Hi buddy, hope you’re well! Just giving Olaf a wee bit of friendly Glaswegian advice there, vis, Easty beastie, Westie bestie! Well, charity and all that, you know?

      • Athanasius, while it’s true the Wise Men traveled from Est to West they obviously didnae like it because they went back again. As for charity, you sound like a certain gentleman of our acquaintance who will launch into a tirade about someone and then finish with “but I mean it in all charity.” You know who I mean?

      • Athanasius, as far as I know Olaf is a Nordic name, Norwegian to be precise. So, Norsemen travelled from north to south AND stayed as far as I know…..

    • And you will very welcome, at least you won’t have to sing to let folk know when you’re in the toilet in Edinburgh.

  11. My comment was meant to be in reply to Olaf but has landed at the bottom.

    Ed: that’s because others have also replied to Olaf!

  12. I know we have a few threads about the Tridentine Mass, and, especially about the time that Bishop Fellay was in discussion with the Vatican about the Doctrinal Preamble. This video on youtube courtesy of Michael Matt and the Remnant newspaper, says a great deal and is a must see. Applicable? If only because of Archbishop Lefebvre and also of Bishop Fellay in their discussions with the Vatican over the years.

  13. I have attended Mass in St Leonards and St Margaret’s in Edinburgh and the SSPX church in Hamburg, and Manchester. They all share one thing in common the true faith, it hits you the moment you enter. So yes every Catholic should whenever possible visit a Church of the Society of St Pius X. And the FSSP and the ICKSP!

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